Type 4 Rebuild--Cam Selection

vic74 · Post by **vic74** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:50 pm

Hello! New member here facing a rebuild of my type 4 2.0 in my westy. I'm having trouble deciding whether to keep it stock or "upgrade" to a performance cam. Are those of you with aftermarket cams impressed with their performance? Anyone running the Web 73?

Seems simpler and cheaper to keep it stock, but would I be missing an opportunity to improve CHT's and performance? Would I be giving up some low end torque and gas mileage if I went with a performance cam? Please chime in with your suggestions so I can make up my damn mind and get this thing together for the camping season!

Thanks--Vic

vwlover77 · Post by **vwlover77** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:05 pm

I'm firmly convinced that there is no better cam profile for all-around performance, driveability, and economy than stock, if the rest of the engine is stock. This is especially true if you're running stock fuel injection. Every "performance" cam is a tradeoff and compromises one parameter for improvement in another. Those VW engineers were no dummies and came up with an excellent compromise......

........ in my opinion!

vdubyah73 · Post by **vdubyah73** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:35 pm

ya change the cam and everything needs to be looked at. Compression ratio, induction, exhaust, valve size etc.... If you change one without knowing the science of it you could have a pig that won't run without being overly rich, or a tightly wound bitch that screams till it melts.

vic74 · Post by **vic74** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:05 pm

Thanks Don! I currently have a weber progressive but may change to dual carbs due to poor winter drivability. I have some stock carbs that need to be re-bushed-- or I may bite the bullet and get dual webers. Cam choice may end up determining which way I go on the carbs. I agree that I don't want to change cams w/o considering heads/carbs/compression ratio.

Since I need to reduild my heads anyway, are 42x36 valves an improvement with a stock cam? What are you running?

vic74 · Post by **vic74** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:11 pm

vdubyah73-- Sounds like a fair amount of work-- i'm wonderin if it's worth it. I should have said at the beginning that my main goal for this motor is reliability and longevity. But a little extra power wouldn't hurt

vdubyah73 · Post by **vdubyah73** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:19 pm

I have dual weber 34 ICT's and the cheap extractor exhaust, on my 2.0 engine it is stock internally. Had FI and stock exhaust for a while but could never get the FI right for any length of time. If I could have figured out the problem with the FI in time I would have kept it. Vacuum leak through a V/C gasket! Had more power with the FI. Dual 34's work well though not a big difference. Dual 40's might be the ticket.

Post by **Amskeptic** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:38 pm

vic74 wrote:
Cam choice may end up determining which way I go on the carbs.
Since I need to reduild my heads anyway, are 42x36 valves an improvement with a stock cam? What are you running?

There is a restless and predatory aftermarket out there, and I will leave their intentions aside for the moment, but what this aftermarket has done is to throw specifications out into the public sphere so damn willy-nilly that we are all swimming in specifications. Our conversations drown in specifications.

Specifications should only be coming from the expert who has successfully interpreted your needs. I do not even know what your needs are. Are you mostly street, are you mostly highway, are you all-season, are you summers only, do you haul junk, or are you family car only. We have to start with your needs, then determine your path to them.

Cams and carburetors are still only a couple of gears in the clock. There is no answer for your question at this time.

So, whaddyawantouttadisbus?? If it is reliability and longevity, you gotta ask that itinerant guy around here what he was set up with to get a good 558,238 miles out of his '73 bus. Where is he anyway?

vic74 · Post by **vic74** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:00 pm

This is for a 74 westy used as a camping vehicle as well as a daily driver when needed. I would like to use it more in the winter but never got the progressive to work well in the cold. I live in a valley and virtually any trip of more than 20 miles from my house will put the bus in the Cascade, Siskiyou, or Coast Ranges. Loaded down with 2 adults, 3 kids and assorted camping gear more often than not. I'd like to do this while keeping up with the semi trucks--at least the loaded ones.

Cruising at 65mph on the flats would be fine, I don't need to be in the fast lane. I took it pretty easy on my last engine, took 6 or 7 seconds to build oil pressure on start up--sounded like a diesel at idle. I always drove it with this in mind.

500k+ miles is astounding! If I could get 100k on this rebuild I would be pleased--though I would'nt refuse more. Colin-- I know you advocate stock components and have had much success with them. I also know that you work on a lot of bus engines and have experience with much of what's available on the aftermarket. Between you and your fellow itinerants--I figured I'd get some sound advice!

Bleyseng · Post by **Bleyseng** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:00 am

I prefer Jake Raby's cam and lifters and have used several of them in my type4 motors.
What induction are you using? If its a single carb no cam is really that great due to the carb problems. Dual's? Lots of good basic cams are good for this setup...
Stock Ljet FI? Jake's 9550 cam with 42x36 valves really wakes up the motor and lowers Cht's and improves the hp/torque numbers alot.

Bleyseng · Post by **Bleyseng** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:57 pm

check out this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zUJSqVAAKA
for a cam video from Raby

Oregon72 · Post by **Oregon72** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:30 pm

CB Performance set me up with a nice cam shaft and matched up lifters for what seemed to be a reasonable price. Mine engine is a Type 4 1800 with stock dual solex. They called it their Econo Cam and the claim was it is a very mild cam and was a good alternative to stock and provided improved fuel economy and streetable use of dual carburation - whatever that means. For my engine, I didn't need to mess with rocker geometry or anything like that despite checking it pretty thoroughly. Your 2L with different fuel delivery may need something totally different. A call to CB Performance to speak with their tech guys could probably get you a decent recommendation to begin with.

Hope that helps for what it is worth.

Sylvester · Post by **Sylvester** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:42 pm

Oregon72 wrote:CB Performance set me up with a nice cam shaft and matched up lifters for what seemed to be a reasonable price. Mine engine is a Type 4 1800 with stock dual solex. They called it their Econo Cam and the claim was it is a very mild cam and was a good alternative to stock and provided improved fuel economy and streetable use of dual carburation - whatever that means. For my engine, I didn't need to mess with rocker geometry or anything like that despite checking it pretty thoroughly. Your 2L with different fuel delivery may need something totally different. A call to CB Performance to speak with their tech guys could probably get you a decent recommendation to begin with.

Hope that helps for what it is worth.

This sounds like what he wants.

vic74 · Post by **vic74** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:24 pm

Thanks for link Bleyseng-I like the way that the Raby components are sold in comprehensive kits. Helps to eliminate a bad part choice by a newb like me! His expertise is worth a lot for sure if I go with a non-stock option. People seem to be consistently happy with his stuff.

Thanks for the CB "econo cam" recommendation. What improvements did you notice? Looks similiar to the web 73 I'm also considering. Sounds like your pretty happy with it and it might work with stock solexes which I may use. I'm wondering if either of these cams would help lower CHT's or otherwise benefit a loaded westy.

I don't plan on keeping the progressive permenately, but I hope I can break in the engine with it. I doesn't work great in the winter but does pretty well the rest of the time (at least with the stock cam). I have some stock solexes that need to be re-bushed/rebuilt, and'm I'm assuming re-jetted for a 2.0. I'm also considering dual webers-but I don't want to have to set up dual carbs at the first start up. Thanks for the input so far.

Gypsie · Post by **Gypsie** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:10 pm

Great things to think on posted here.

2 more cents worth. If you go the web cam route get the web lifters.

Whatever route you go, get new lifters with your new cam.

new and old don't play nice together.

-Gypsierebuildingafterlessthan5000miles

72Hardtop · Post by **72Hardtop** » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:42 am

vic74 wrote:This is for a 74 westy used as a camping vehicle as well as a daily driver when needed. I would like to use it more in the winter but never got the progressive to work well in the cold. I live in a valley and virtually any trip of more than 20 miles from my house will put the bus in the Cascade, Siskiyou, or Coast Ranges. Loaded down with 2 adults, 3 kids and assorted camping gear more often than not. I'd like to do this while keeping up with the semi trucks--at least the loaded ones. Cruising at 65mph on the flats would be fine, I don't need to be in the fast lane. I took it pretty easy on my last engine, took 6 or 7 seconds to build oil pressure on start up--sounded like a diesel at idle. I always drove it with this in mind.

500k+ miles is astounding! If I could get 100k on this rebuild I would be pleased--though I would'nt refuse more. Colin-- I know you advocate stock components and have had much success with them. I also know that you work on a lot of bus engines and have experience with much of what's available on the aftermarket. Between you and your fellow itinerants--I figured I'd get some sound advice!

Keep in mind no matter how meticulous one is you won't get 500,000+ miles out of a T-4 motor. That figure doesn't include the several rebuilds it's had.

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Type 4 Rebuild--Cam Selection

Type 4 Rebuild--Cam Selection

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