Pop Top Tom's Rebuild Thread <updated 10-17

LiveonJG · Post by **LiveonJG** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:39 pm

Congrats! It's been a long time coming, bet it feels good.

-John

RussellK · Post by **RussellK** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:22 pm

That is awesome!! =D>

chitwnvw · Post by **chitwnvw** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:25 pm

Like a monkey off your back. I still remember the break in and the first few drives.

Have you done Colin's ring seating routine?

Bleyseng · Post by **Bleyseng** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:32 am

Great job! =D>

vwlover77 · Post by **vwlover77** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:07 am

Congratulations!!! Excellent!!!!

Dixie Bus 2011: BE THERE!!!!

Westy78 · Post by **Westy78** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:13 am

Nice job Tom. Now for the year of tweaking to get things just right.

Do you have a way to confirm AFR? Very important on a new engine. You don't want it too lean and burn a valve or too rich and glaze the rings/cylinders.

poptop tom · Post by **poptop tom** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:34 am

Westy78 wrote:Nice job Tom. Now for the year of tweaking to get things just right. Do you have a way to confirm AFR? Very important on a new engine. You don't want it too lean and burn a valve or too rich and glaze the rings/cylinders.

I don't, Jasan. And I hope to drive her to north FLA tomorrow......Colin made some adjustments on the wheel to mess with the leanness/richness, but nothing definitive as to where I stand. Does the LM-1 do this test work for you?

Also, thanks everybody again for the kind words and all the encouragement to finish this "project".

poptop tom · Post by **poptop tom** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:35 am

chitwnvw wrote:Like a monkey off your back. I still remember the break in and the first few drives.

Have you done Colin's ring seating routine?

I have not done Colin's ring seating routine. He mentioned it quickly, but I need the details!

sped372 · Post by **sped372** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:48 am

poptop tom wrote:I hope to drive her to north FLA tomorrow......

Good luck to you... you are a brave man. I'm way too anxious after making changes to drive a long trip out of the gate. The amount of work you have in that thing you must be pretty confident!

Mr Blotto · Post by **Mr Blotto** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:54 am

poptop tom wrote:I hope to drive her to north FLA tomorrow.....

Whatchutalkinaboutwillis?

Damn dude - you got some huevos - how are you going to do your break-in oil changes?

Have a SAFE trip! When are we going to see some pics???

poptop tom · Post by **poptop tom** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:05 am

Mr Blotto wrote:
poptop tom wrote:I hope to drive her to north FLA tomorrow.....
Whatchutalkinaboutwillis?

Damn dude - you got some huevos - how are you going to do your break-in oil changes?

Have a SAFE trip! When are we going to see some pics???

LOL - I do have some huevos.....or I'm just plain stupid. Probably both.

I will manage with the break-in oil changes. Hell, Colin can dissemble a bus in the middle of the desert.......

Of course, I'm no Colin!

Pics? What pics? Maybe when I return next week.....or when Colin posts some!

vwlover77 · Post by **vwlover77** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:59 am

I adjusted my AFR with an LM-1. Guess what?

Colin dialed it in nearly PERFECTLY using his method. it was just a tad too rich per the LM-1.

Much better to be a tad too rich than too lean.

Pull your plugs at a rest stop on your way to Florida. That will give you a good indication of where things stand.

Are you taking the 4-lanes? If so, vary your speed from time to time for a good break-in.

About the rings:

Amskeptic wrote: You gently warm the engine up to operating temperatures by driving it within one minute of starting it, like the owner's manuals have been telling us all for a half century. Any engine wants to get warm quickly, these air-cooled engines particularly do. So get a load on it right away, but drive gently, no bazai rev runs.

Once it is warm (20 minutes), you need to apply good pressure to the rings so they will seat against the cylinder walls. If you are too gentle, the rings will not knock off the minor imperfections placed on the cylinder walls by honing. You want your rings and your cylinders to become good friends, and some serious contact is the way to do it.
So find a level quiet road and get up to 20-25 mph in 3rd gear. Now accelerate with just under full throttle to 45-50 mph, then release the accelerator and allow the engine to slow the car back down to 25-30 and repeat five times. Then drive normally for a couple of miles and repeat the whole shebang another five times at full throttle. This is no excuse to drive like a maniac, just ease on to full throttle on it ease off into your coastdown. When you accelerate, you let metal shed off the walls, coasting down in gear lets the engine rinse the metal flakes down into the sump. Heat is an issue with fresh rings, the friction is substantial, so we want to let your engine dissipate the generated heat with these coastdowns as well, the couple of miles of normal driving in the middle also helps. When you get home, change the oil right away. Let it drip for an hour even. Then refill and change the oil again in about 100 miles (you may be beyond this if you have already been driving it for a few days, but there is no such thing as changing it too frequently with a fresh rebuild).

poptop tom · Post by **poptop tom** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:21 am

vwlover77 wrote:I adjusted my AFR with an LM-1. Guess what?

Colin dialed it in nearly PERFECTLY using his method. it was just a tad too rich per the LM-1.

Much better to be a tad too rich than too lean.

Pull your plugs at a rest stop on your way to Florida. That will give you a good indication of where things stand.

Are you taking the 4-lanes? If so, vary your speed from time to time for a good break-in.

About the rings:

Amskeptic wrote: You gently warm the engine up to operating temperatures by driving it within one minute of starting it, like the owner's manuals have been telling us all for a half century. Any engine wants to get warm quickly, these air-cooled engines particularly do. So get a load on it right away, but drive gently, no bazai rev runs.

Once it is warm (20 minutes), you need to apply good pressure to the rings so they will seat against the cylinder walls. If you are too gentle, the rings will not knock off the minor imperfections placed on the cylinder walls by honing. You want your rings and your cylinders to become good friends, and some serious contact is the way to do it.
So find a level quiet road and get up to 20-25 mph in 3rd gear. Now accelerate with just under full throttle to 45-50 mph, then release the accelerator and allow the engine to slow the car back down to 25-30 and repeat five times. Then drive normally for a couple of miles and repeat the whole shebang another five times at full throttle. This is no excuse to drive like a maniac, just ease on to full throttle on it ease off into your coastdown. When you accelerate, you let metal shed off the walls, coasting down in gear lets the engine rinse the metal flakes down into the sump. Heat is an issue with fresh rings, the friction is substantial, so we want to let your engine dissipate the generated heat with these coastdowns as well, the couple of miles of normal driving in the middle also helps. When you get home, change the oil right away. Let it drip for an hour even. Then refill and change the oil again in about 100 miles (you may be beyond this if you have already been driving it for a few days, but there is no such thing as changing it too frequently with a fresh rebuild).

Excellent! Thanks so much for sharing that Don!!

Post by **Amskeptic** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:00 pm

Hey Tom,
That was a bit nuts, our "2 hours, that's IT" 6 hour marathon of wires "where is the blue wire?" and idiot lights and "what's that smell?" and fuel hose clamps and spark plugs and fuel injector tests and more fuel hose clamps and "what's that smell?" and "where is the blue wire if the alternator light is now off?" and "why is the oil light on?" and "what is that SMELL?"

On The Road Break-In

You need to vary the rev range for the rings to develop a seal against the cylinder walls through-out the operating range. For Hell-Bent Florida-bound people, you better stick to country roads for the first couple of hundred miles with plenty of stops and starts and shut-downs and cool-downs. You do *not* want to go stick it at 65-70 mph on the interstate where the heat build-up will easily exceed the engine's ability to shed it with the enormous additional heat load of new rings and bearings.

You, Tom (and I know you well enough to say this), have a great big streak of enthusiasm:

Temper it. Do *not* get all crazy on the road. Check the engine frequently and let it cool down. I did set the mixture rich by 13 CW teeth on the black cog. That was a nutso huge amount. You better plan on leaning it back a bit after a couple hundred miles. As the friction diminishes, the fuel injection is going to get the additional airflow that it expects for the rpm program. Your best by-the-seat mixture test is going to be the Rapid Brake Pedal Pump Test. Lightly and quickly!
Idle goes up noticeably? Rich.
Idle breaks up a bit or maybe goes up a tad but recovers when you stop? Pretty good.
Idle drops noticeably? Lean.
Check oil level at every stop. Keep it at the full mark. Even if it is but a 1/4 quart low, top it up for the sake of rings and camshaft.

Do not let it run too rich or too lean. The below photograph is what you, I, everybody on this forum, have pondered and prayed and lost sleep over. Take good care of that beauty. And damn if I ain't totally proud of your tenaciousness:

sped372 · Post by **sped372** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:24 pm

Um, so what was the smell?

Itinerant Air-Cooled

Itinerant Air-Cooled

Pop Top Tom's Rebuild Thread <updated 10-17