Cooling Flaps Install / static setting

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MConverse
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Cooling Flaps Install / static setting

Post by MConverse » Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:08 pm

I'm missing the cooling flaps on the 77 Westy I'm restoring, and when talking to a local mechanic, he said he can get me some, but only the flaps. He said "good luck" on getting the cable, and the rest of it (thermostat etc).

Anyone have any idea where I can get the rest of the system that works?

Just so you know, this is my first Aircooled engine so I'm not positive of everything that I need, but looking at the Bentley my list so far is:

Flaps (duh)
Cooling air control cable
Thermostat
Thermostat mounting Bracket and assorted bolts/nuts

Looking at Colin's diagram, it looks like there is a "fail-safe" spring, does that come with the shaft that connects the flaps, or is that a separate piece?

I did put in a call to Interstate and asked if they have all the pieces, or an entire Fan Shroud with all the pieces attached (and working) that I can purchase, they said they would call me back tomorrow with an answer.

Lastly, if I can only get the flaps for now, would it help to install them and rig it where the oil cooler flap runs in the "open" position all the time? and if so, do I rig the right flap open as well? Or should I just keep looking for all the pieces?

Any help/info is appreciated.

Mike

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soulful66
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Post by soulful66 » Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:11 pm

Don't forget to see if the flap assembly has the 2 little plastic "bushings" on the them, where the rod rests in the fan housing.
Best Regards,
John
'72 westy 3TC
'73 westy 1700 dual solex
'79 westy 2000 F.I.

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Sluggo
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Post by Sluggo » Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:51 pm

The flaps come with the spring.

Make sure it has the two bakelite bushings on it.

If installed properly, the flaps will automatically be in the open position.

Jake Raby sells T-Stats. I think Germansupplyscott does too. Or you can use a Type 1 T-Stat.

You can use bike brake cable (or Beetle accelerator cable like I do) for the cable.

Brackets can be picked up on e-Bay & Samba.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BUY A WHOLE ASSEMBLY!!!

Chris @ Busted Bus can probably get you the flaps, bushings and bracket.
:vwgauge420:

1977 Bus with Sunroof - "Lucky '77"
2000cc Type IV w/Dual Weber 36s,
Aircooled.net SVDA w/Compufire,
Redline Weber Fuel Pump,
Holley Regulator,
Half Ass Brush & Roller Rustoleum Paint Job,
Incomplete Custom Interior,
Dual Batteries,
Crunched Slider Door.
------------------------------------------------------

MConverse
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Post by MConverse » Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:18 pm

You guys Rock!

Thanks for the info, exactly what I was looking for.

Mike

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chitwnvw
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Post by chitwnvw » Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:21 pm

Make sure you understand how it operates. You can run without the flaps. They are there to get the engine up to operating temps quicker. If not installed correctly you can cook your engine. In San Diego, it's probably not your number one concern. That said, fix it...soon!

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Sluggo
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Post by Sluggo » Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:44 pm

chitwnvw wrote:You can run without the flaps.
You can also run on 3 cylinders. But you shouldn't (even though I did since Saturday till about 3 hours ago). If the engine doesn't heat up efficiently it will cut back on the life of the engine. Without flaps air will not be directed to the oil cooler. It's better to have flaps installed in the "fail safe" position with no working T-Stat.
:vwgauge420:

1977 Bus with Sunroof - "Lucky '77"
2000cc Type IV w/Dual Weber 36s,
Aircooled.net SVDA w/Compufire,
Redline Weber Fuel Pump,
Holley Regulator,
Half Ass Brush & Roller Rustoleum Paint Job,
Incomplete Custom Interior,
Dual Batteries,
Crunched Slider Door.
------------------------------------------------------

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chitwnvw
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Post by chitwnvw » Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:59 pm

Sluggo wrote:
chitwnvw wrote:You can run without the flaps.
You can also run on 3 cylinders. .
C'mon, Sloggo, I'm not advocating running without a thermostat, but the flaps set up wrong can fry an engine, an engine w/o or the flaps or in the fail safe position will see a few less miles. I was only advocating taking the safer path...

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Sluggo
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Post by Sluggo » Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:23 pm

chitwnvw wrote:
Sluggo wrote:
chitwnvw wrote:You can run without the flaps.
You can also run on 3 cylinders. .
C'mon, Sloggo, I'm not advocating running without a thermostat, but the flaps set up wrong can fry an engine, an engine w/o or the flaps or in the fail safe position will see a few less miles. I was only advocating taking the safer path...
I just felt like being a smart ass.
:vwgauge420:

1977 Bus with Sunroof - "Lucky '77"
2000cc Type IV w/Dual Weber 36s,
Aircooled.net SVDA w/Compufire,
Redline Weber Fuel Pump,
Holley Regulator,
Half Ass Brush & Roller Rustoleum Paint Job,
Incomplete Custom Interior,
Dual Batteries,
Crunched Slider Door.
------------------------------------------------------

MConverse
Getting Hooked!
Location: San Diego
Status: Offline

Post by MConverse » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:31 am

Sluggo wrote:. Without flaps air will not be directed to the oil cooler.
This is the main reason I want the flaps. If all else fails, I'll install them in the fail-safe position until I can get all the parts to make them work right. At least the oil wont cook.

Mike

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Amskeptic
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Post by Amskeptic » Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:04 pm

chitwnvw wrote: I'm not advocating running without a thermostat, but the flaps set up wrong can fry an engine, an engine w/o or the flaps or in the fail safe position will see a few less miles. I was only advocating taking the safer path...
A Type 4 engine MUST NOT BE RUN without the left flap at the very least.
The oil cooler depends on it for dedicated airflow.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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chitwnvw
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Post by chitwnvw » Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:20 pm

Amskeptic wrote: A Type 4 engine MUST NOT BE RUN without the left flap at the very least.
The oil cooler depends on it for dedicated airflow.
Colin
I'm not saying it's good, nor right, but a lot of these engines were run without the flaps. Perhaps, Colin would like to elaborate on what exactly this does to an engine.

At any rate, I suspect it's like being exposed to asbestos, the symptoms don't show up right away.

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Amskeptic
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Post by Amskeptic » Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:27 pm

chitwnvw wrote:
a lot of these engines were run without the flaps.
Perhaps Colin would like to elaborate on what exactly this does to an engine.
A lot of these engines have been accused of having lousy cylinder heads, failed valve seats, blown cylinder head sealing rings, inability to withstand hot summer interstate driving, excessive oil temperatures, short lives in buses and Vanagon Westies, and I feel no need to elaborate on why you should have the damn left flap in place. Remember that it is actuated by a remote link, you can see an engine with no cross bar, no right flap, no thermostat, and the left flap which attaches to the fan housing itself will still be in place (often held down with a screw drilled through the upper cylinder cover). You have to look to see if the left flap is not installed. Do not run the engine without it.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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soulful66
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Post by soulful66 » Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:28 pm

Your oil light will come on at an idle after a long drive, due to the oil being over heated because the oil cooler is deprivd of cooling air. That was a common occurence on my bus until I installed the t-stat and flaps.
Best Regards,
John
'72 westy 3TC
'73 westy 1700 dual solex
'79 westy 2000 F.I.

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chitwnvw
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Post by chitwnvw » Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:37 pm

Amskeptic wrote: I feel no need to elaborate on why
Colin
I'm not asking why. I am asking what. The bus I bought and drove back from Salem, OR lacked the thermostat and and all the flaps and linkage....

Just as I am trying to understand what installing a 30mm oil pump does to the cooling system, I am trying to wrap my mind around what running with out the flaps does to the engine.

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chitwnvw
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Post by chitwnvw » Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:39 pm

soulful66 wrote:Your oil light will come on at an idle after a long drive, due to the oil being over heated because the oil cooler is deprivd of cooling air. That was a common occurence on my bus until I installed the t-stat and flaps.
Best Regards,
John
The oil pressure light? The oil get's too hot and thin?

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