The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

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xyzzy
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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by xyzzy » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:58 am

Still driving with the newly replaced solenoid collar rubber grommets, will report back on the overall results after a tank or two.

In the meantime, I'm going to have my original transmission rebuilt. As Robbie and Colin can attest, it's pretty whiney. Lately, first gear has been pretty fussy to engage. My plan is to take it to Eric @ Transworks in El Cajon for a rebuild. I will also replace the engine seal and CV boots while it's out.
---
1973 Westfalia
Encinitas, California USA

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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:08 pm

xyzzy wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:58 am
Still driving with the newly replaced solenoid collar rubber grommets, will report back on the overall results after a tank or two.

In the meantime, I'm going to have my original transmission rebuilt. As Robbie and Colin can attest, it's pretty whiney. Lately, first gear has been pretty fussy to engage. My plan is to take it to Eric @ Transworks in El Cajon for a rebuild. I will also replace the engine seal and CV boots while it's out.
EXPLAIN that you want the shift forks to pull within the factory specified resistance!
33-44 ft/lbs I think .... :rabbit: .... Chloe still shifts like a truck into 4th, a real PIA reminder every time I have to engage 4th!

DEMAND the wide side seals.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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xyzzy
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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by xyzzy » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:07 am

Dropped my bus off at Buggy Works for a tranny rebuild today -- getting the rebuild done by Eric @ Transworks in El Cajon. The drive the was 28 miles on the highway, and I can't get over how good the bus runs. After a 65-70mph run up some moderate grades, I used my laser thermometer to get some readings:

Left Valve Cover, center: 225
Right Valve Cover, center: 200
Taco Plate: 228


I feel like I took it in at the right time as first and second gear would get pretty fussy after running for awhile.
---
1973 Westfalia
Encinitas, California USA

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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by asiab3 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:27 pm

Is the shop doing the whole swap? Make them swap out the pilot bearing while the engine is out, and pray to Nordhoff that the shop takes good care of your careful hard work.

Glad it’s running so well!
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:02 am

xyzzy wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:07 am
I can't get over how good the bus runs.

You fricken deserve it. You dotted your "i"s and crossed your "t"s.

I drive a lovely factory dual carb bus in Saint Louis. Engine had factory balance.
The other dual carb bus in Saint Louis, it burned the hair off my arms and blasted flames out of the wrong central idling circuit plumbing hooked up to give the brake booster vacuum, I s**t you not.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by xyzzy » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:37 pm

I knew my transmission was whiney, but I had no idea! After picking up my bus this morning, I'd now reclassify my previous transmission whine as an "extremely loud whine". Now you can just whisper to the passenger -- amazing difference.

Had to do a quick clutch cable adjustment after it settled driving it home about 40 miles. Set it to about 1" of free play from rest, and engages about 1/4 from the floor -- sound about right?

Amazing how well this bus drives now! Need to do a couple minor wiring adjustments after picking it up -- fuel pump wire was rerouted in a wonky way when they reassembled it, and the diagnostic cable had broken off the spade terminal at the coil -- otherwise, everything seems to be perfect!

Waiting for Robbie to get back and take it for a spin!
---
1973 Westfalia
Encinitas, California USA

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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:52 pm

xyzzy wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:37 pm
I knew my transmission was whiney, but I had no idea!
=D>
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by xyzzy » Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:24 am

Had the pleasure of Robbie visiting last night. We changed the points and replaced a section of fuel line and a fuel filter. My dwell was up to 51/52 and timing a bit retarded as a result (14deg).

Apparently after getting my new transmission installed, the right side accordion heater tube wasn't fully connected, and as a result melted. So I'll be looking for a replacement.

I had a shiny refurbished backup distributor (correct 205J) from bill which we decided to give a shot since. We had to re-mount the condenser as it prevented the distributor from seating properly. After static-timing she fired right up. However, after timing to 28 degrees max advance (hoses off of course) we were running too retarded with the vacuums hooked up (16 degrees ATDC). Of course, this is the same thing that originally happened with the first distributor several pages ago when we switched back to the original dual carbs. If we timed it to 10 degrees, the max advance hoses off would hit 34 which was too hot. Bill who did the rebuilds on both distributors had adjusted the post on the advance of the (first) distributor I've been using when we went through this previously.

Not wanting to monkey around with that again, we replaced the points on the first 205J, static timed it, and everything runs beautifully. It sits at 11.5 degrees BTDC when timed to 28 degrees max hoses off. I'm just a tad rich at idle, but I knew that going in and wanted to get the points replaced before fine tuning it more.

Question: What about my GE code 2L would create 6 degrees of extra retard off these two correct original 205Js?

Things left to do:

1) Fine tuning mixture idle, maybe increase the chokes a tad more for winter
2) Find a replacement right side accordion heater tube
3) Get a replacement shift coupler
4) Remove my luggage rack crossbars and get them blasted, primed, and painted.

I have to say, my bus has never run this good!
---
1973 Westfalia
Encinitas, California USA

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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by asiab3 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:13 am

xyzzy wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:24 am
It sits at 11.5 degrees ATDC
Little details ;)

That bus is an absolutely joy to drive- the finest experience of a factory dual carb engine I have ever driven.

It was upsetting to find such sloppy work from the transaxle installation shop:
- Shift coupler grub screw missing safety wire
- Fuel lines and filter chafing on starter #30 terminal
- Starter #30 wires installed out of order
- RS heater control pod not installed, just bouncing around (lucky it didn't escape!)
- Melted RS accordion heat tube


I've had a problem with excessive distributor drive gear vertical play causing excessive retard in the past, but your timing at idle, even at 16°ATDC was so rock solid steady I do not believe that to be the case here. Here is a video… A strobe light on the Type 1 engine that would randomly drop 10-15° of timing at idle, from the spec of 5°ATDC to something like 20°ATDC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrn94CP1GaI

(Timing marks may seem "backwards" to you Type 4 folks, because our degree scales are in motion and yours are stationary…)

That engine would only drop if left to idle for more than a few seconds. At initial idle after revving, it would hold at 5° but then drop a few seconds later; your engine is much more certain in its quest to 16°ATDC with the "stock" distributors.

I can't even theorize right now, except to say we should have checked your distributor drive gear end play.

See you on the road,
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by satchmo » Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:02 am

Your 2 liter engine is breathing in 15% more air than your original 1700 cc engine did. I suppose this could increase your idle vacuum level enough to give you an extra 6 deg. of retard at idle IF the distributor vacuum can and the spring plate allowed for such.

How does it run when you set it for max advance (28-32 degrees BTDC advance hose off) and let the idle settle where it wants? Is the idle speed then too slow?

Easiest adjustment to get it to 10 deg ATDC at idle might be to add a shim or dab of JB weld to prevent the vacuum can arm from moving so much in the retard direction.

Satchmo
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First, by reflection, which is noblest;
second, by immitation, which is easiest;
and third, by experience, which is bitterest. -Confucius

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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by xyzzy » Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:50 pm

satchmo wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:02 am
Your 2 liter engine is breathing in 15% more air than your original 1700 cc engine did. I suppose this could increase your idle vacuum level enough to give you an extra 6 deg. of retard at idle IF the distributor vacuum can and the spring plate allowed for such.

How does it run when you set it for max advance (28-32 degrees BTDC advance hose off) and let the idle settle where it wants? Is the idle speed then too slow?

Easiest adjustment to get it to 10 deg ATDC at idle might be to add a shim or dab of JB weld to prevent the vacuum can arm from moving so much in the retard direction.

Satchmo
That makes sense. On the first 205J (which I'm running still now), Bill did indeed set the arm to limit the retard, so it sits around 11.5degrees ATDC.. runs awesome. The second 205J with the NOS vacuum can does the 16 degrees ATDC just as the one I'm running now did before Bill's mod. It's a little too retarded at 16, but does jump up nicely on throttle. Since both 205Js and NOS vacuum cans had the same behavior, makes sense that the bigger engine is causing the extra retard. I'll see if Bill can set this second 205J vacuum can to limit the retard as well and will have a solid backup.

Next up are finding a right side according heat tube, a backup shift coupler, and a rear engine tin under the fan since mine has rusted a hole in it, and then getting these cross bars off my luggage rack and blasted/primed/painted..
---
1973 Westfalia
Encinitas, California USA

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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:06 am

I just went in and fooled around with your letters.
A AFTER meaning "retarded"
B BEFORE meaning "advanced"

The vacuum signal *number* (read: strength) has no bearing on the amount of retard you are getting at idle. That depends solely on the mechanical limits of the arm and posts. The vacuum signal strength *does matter* at transition points. Then the curve is dependent on in/hg.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by asiab3 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:16 am

The transition was smooth and crisp in neutral, but we did not road test it. It was deemed useful enough to be able to static time and get on the road as a backup.

As the sun was waning and the fog setting in, a feeling of "let's protect the gains!" set in quickly. :geek:
Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:52 am

asiab3 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:16 am
The transition was smooth and crisp in neutral, but we did not road test it. It was deemed useful enough to be able to static time and get on the road as a backup.

As the sun was waning and the fog setting in, a feeling of "let's protect the gains!" set in quickly. :geek:
Robbie
I remember that phrase. What were we doing? Was it with Sunny? Buddy?
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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xyzzy
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Re: The Goose: Converting back to Dual Solex PDSIT-32/34

Post by xyzzy » Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:50 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:06 am
I just went in and fooled around with your letters.
A AFTER meaning "retarded"
B BEFORE meaning "advanced"

The vacuum signal *number* (read: strength) has no bearing on the amount of retard you are getting at idle. That depends solely on the mechanical limits of the arm and posts. The vacuum signal strength *does matter* at transition points. Then the curve is dependent on in/hg.
Colin
So, what exactly is causing my 2L to run 8 degrees too retarded at idle with two different 205J distributors with 2 NOS vacuum cans that are correct for a 73? Since Bill was able to "fix" the first one by adjusting the stop, but both 205J distributors and NOS cans had the same exact behavior, what's the actual cause? Is it that the NOS cans (16-18 degrees of retard) the stop didnt come into play because the smaller engine didnt pull it passed the 16-18 degrees, and my 2L is?
---
1973 Westfalia
Encinitas, California USA

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