Vanagon Fuel Vapor Balancing Line

[the miz]

Hi all,
...wondering if anyone has some expertise in the replacement of the fuel vapor/ balancing lines in an air cooled Vanagon? I am in the throes of replacing mine and came to an abrupt halt as the result of a fundamental install question:

-does the main fuel tank balancing line (i.e.:the larger diameter one with the T pieces that spans the fuel tank) need to be routed over the heating air duct which runs above the middle of the fuel tank?

If so, any install tips would be appreciated!
(for example: how the heck do you plug the T pieces into the grommets with the tank elevated to the point where the length of the balancing line will make the span?)

If not...thanks for the clarification!

miz

[Amskeptic]

-does the main fuel tank balancing line (i.e.:the larger diameter one with the T pieces that spans the fuel tank) need to be routed over the heating air duct which runs above the middle of the fuel tank?

Seeing as I had a water-cooled Vanagon, I cannot answer your question, it had no heater duct going over the fuel tank.

That said, the physics of the evaporative line wants the line higher than not.
Colin

[Lanval]

Were you able to figure this out? As I recall, on my 82 it did go over the heater hose, but I'd need Colin to confirm. I wasn't able to confirm it with a quick search of the Samba this morning.

edit: I see Colin has replied; my thinking back leads me to recall that the gas tank has a depression for the heater hose in the center. Since the vapor line is routed from the sides, which are higher than the middle, then I would expect the vapor line to go across.

My dim memory suggests that this is not easy to achieve, as I recall it being difficult enough to route over the heater duct that I wondered if it went under... but couldn't get that to fit either. So I went back to routing it over the duct, and finally got it done. I remember it being difficult because of the length; there wasn't enough slack to easily get it onto the grommets, and since you're probably working laying on the ground with your hands in the air, and you can't see what you're doing... well, you get the idea.

[the miz]

My dim memory suggests that this is not easy to achieve, as I recall it being difficult enough to route over the heater duct that I wondered if it went under... but couldn't get that to fit either. So I went back to routing it over the duct, and finally got it done. I remember it being difficult because of the length; there wasn't enough slack to easily get it onto the grommets, and since you're probably working laying on the ground with your hands in the air, and you can't see what you're doing... well, you get the idea.

...you're absolutely right, this was a difficult task to undertake while lying one one's back and working blind, overhead! I knew the old balance line had been routed through this tiny, plastic-rimmed cranny above the heating duct; unfortunately, the t-pieces (pre-ear-clamped) onto the GoWesty balance tube would not pass through this same cranny. So, I tried routing the balance line in front of that location (over the duct) in the first spot it would pass through, only to discover that I needed (minimally) an additional 2" of play in the balance line in order to plug the t-piece into the grommet on the fuel tank...at the last, lowest point where it was accessible by a human hand attached to a human wrist. This resulted in ~4 hours of rolling around on the garage floor, raising and lowering the fuel tank, interspersed with half-grunted curse words. Finally, I decided I'd try it not routed above the duct, although I knew this violated the principle of the design as well as the physics concept underpinning the design. Luckily, I was tipped off by tight German engineering tolerances, that "this is not correct" (said in my best overblown Teutonic accent), when the fuel tank support bars would not reinstall due to a distance gap with the frame, ostensibly due to something taking up space where it shouldn't have been(i.e.: the balance tube).

This leaves me with 2 ideas for the coming weekend (or the next time I might have 4 hours to roll around on the garage floor, cursing):
Option 1: cut off ear-clamp, remove t-piece, route balance tube through original path, reattach t-piece, insert t-pieces into grommets, reinstall fuel tank.
--failing success there--
Option 2: cut off ear-clamps, remove t-pieces, head over to O'Reilly or Napa, try to source longer piece of comparable diameter fuel line, route through original location, reinstall t-pieces, insert t-pieces into grommets, reinstall fuel tank.

...does this sound like a reasonable approach for "phase II"?

Thanks for any additional input!
-miz

[cegammel]

I redid my 1980 Vanagon tank goodies last fall...

I routed my hoses over the heater duct, then raised the tank and secured it loosely, then reached through the driver's side wheel well, with the tire removed, to insert the plastic hose barb into the grommet. It was not fun...and cursing helped, as did a tub of petroleum jelly. The hardest part for me was the filler neck, which also required much lube.

[cegammel]

Oh, don't cut anything off...it is doable, just don't try the driver side until the tank is in or very near in its installed position... Having tiny hands will help... As I recall, the passenger side must be done before fitting the tank, as there really is only a tiny opening there. I hope I am not leading you astray...my memory is fuzzy on this one.

[the miz]

I redid my 1980 Vanagon tank goodies last fall...
I routed my hoses over the heater duct, then raised the tank and secured it loosely, then reached through the driver's side wheel well, with the tire removed, to insert the plastic hose barb into the grommet. It was not fun...and cursing helped, as did a tub of petroleum jelly. The hardest part for me was the filler neck, which also required much lube.

Thanks for the notes! I will keep this all in mind when I return to the task. Unfortunately, I don't think I can remove the front wheels right now, as the rears are up on ramps in anticipation of installing the rebuilt engine which is on its way to me. The upside, is that I have more room to flail around under the fuel tank.
I'll try it again with the wheel on, if I can't get it, I may wait until BellePlaine comes over to help with the engine install, then he can listen to my cursing...


miz

[the miz]

Oh, don't cut anything off...it is doable, just don't try the driver side until the tank is in or very near in its installed position... Having tiny hands will help... As I recall, the passenger side must be done before fitting the tank, as there really is only a tiny opening there. I hope I am not leading you astray...my memory is fuzzy on this one.

Thanks again, this is also good info, I can see where all of this would help. I am not surprised at all of the "fuzzy memories" surrounding this job, I think the human mind naturally tries to block the recall of such traumatic situations.

[Mulcheese]

I redid my 1980 Vanagon tank goodies last fall...

I routed my hoses over the heater duct, then raised the tank and secured it loosely, then reached through the driver's side wheel well, with the tire removed, to insert the plastic hose barb into the grommet. It was not fun...and cursing helped, as did a tub of petroleum jelly. The hardest part for me was the filler neck, which also required much lube.

Miz

This sounds about what I did with mine so many years ago. I think I supported my tank with a jack as I attached the lines then lifted it ito its final resting place.

Let us know how it goes. I may be dropping my tank again this summer as I have a good size dent (PO had tried to jack up the van under the tank) that I want to pull out. I am not looking forward to this as I know the joy it brings?

Cursing does help, at least for me it does.

[the miz]

Thanks to all of you for your suggestions and input. It is all back together, properly sealed and balanced. The comments were appreciated; it just goes to show there are a few things in life that are easier with proper positioning and a little lubrication! The good news is: I was able to plug my fuel gauge sender back in (inadvertently unplugged during Colin's last visit) and discover that the fuel leak when "topped-off" at the gas station, always accompanied by strong fuel vapors in the front seats, was due to my main balance line having been unplugged to house a rather large lead sinker. =D> Now all that remains is to see if it is all tight and leak proof. Alas, upon reinstalling the filler neck, I noted that the passenger side plastic vapor tank has a dime sized hole worn in it...oh well, an air cooled VW owner's work is never done.
-miz

[the miz]

Let us know how it goes. I may be dropping my tank again this summer as I have a good size dent (PO had tried to jack up the van under the tank) that I want to pull out. I am not looking forward to this as I know the joy it brings?
Cursing does help, at least for me it does.

Mulcheese: I've had the tank raised and lowered in and out of place so many times, I'm feeling pro at it now! Let me know when you do yours, if you want an extra set of hands...I'd drive up there...if only to help you curse...
-miz