'73 hightop bus adventures

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asiab3
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'73 hightop bus adventures

Post by asiab3 » Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:00 am

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Hi all,

A few weeks ago a young gentleman contacted me on Instagram (a photo sharing service) since he saw I was nearby and his clutch wasn't coming back up. He replaced his cable and I never thought much of it, until this weekend when he contacted me again saying his bus won't start. Being in the area today, I went and took a look.

"So what happens when you try to start it?"
"Well I turn the key and the oil light gets dim."
"What about the gen light?"
"What's that?"

Well I dunno 'bout you guys, but on my planet, even the good German alternators need a bit of current to excite the windings. So I politely ask how many miles are on this "new battery."

"About 200."
"Why did you replace the old one?"
"It died at about 200 miles."
"And you never saw the gen light come on?"
"Never seen it ever."

This poor bus. I can't even begin to look for wiring anomalies; there are random spade terminals everywhere, missing breather hoses, and the central idling intake hose is flapping around by the #3 spark plug boot. Getting my zen on, I approached the problem one step at a time. Somewhere between mumbling about the need to filter ALL intake air and the need to not burn the bus down with unfused wires, I found 12v at the idiot light, and one of those damn Bentley wiring diagrams without the little pictures for Luddites like me. After finding out that the alternator harness has a simple connector into the… Well it should go into the voltage regulator, but it certainly looks like it's going nicely into this void in the engine tin…

"Did the gen light go on?"
"This "G" light? Never seen that before!"

So the battery has enough juice to operate the idiot lights, but the second we try to start it they still go dim. No matter, I have this superior German generator that keeps it's elephant-memory-residual-magnetism. This is the third bus I've jumped since building the new engine. (Math game: If I continue at this rate, I'll have jumped 600 air-cooled Volkswagens by rebuild time. :drunken: )

At this point, I must summon excitement and concentration to massage these factory dual carbs into synchronicity, because this engine is barely hanging in there on two cylinders even with my hand guiding the throttle bar. We let it stall out so I can check cutoffs and choke participation. Checking each idle cutoff solenoid revealed left and right clicks, with the CIC solenoid down for the count. No matter, says I, as I calmly unscrew it to replace it with… Oh, it's been beheaded. Lovely. Good thing, because I don't actually have a spare with me anyway…

Hack the CIC inlet nipple back into the left carb, (it was hanging out by the VIN number stamp,) get the red Gates vacuum hose connected back up to it, reinstall the Headless Horsevalve, and fire it up. No change, so let's see how the CIC adjustment is playing in right now…

Ah. The large central idling volume (speed?) screw is bottomed out. Finger test revealed that NO air was getting through. Out about two turns it goes, and WOW the engine responds better! Now we're on to something. Daylight was essentially gone at this point, and my snail gauge was at home, so my Uni-Ears went up to bat and I hacked my way through the dual carb idle adjustment procedure, noting EVERY change I made so I could reverse all if necessary.

Test drive notes include two jaws on the floor: Me, thinking, "holy shit that actually worked," and the owner's wondering how something free could make it drive so much better. Oh, and the right choke was adjusted almost 90* too closed, so it was on choke for the last 400 miles. That really smoothed out warm up and test driving.

The kicker?
A receipt from a local garage for $1,400, itemized including five hours spent "tuning and optimizing carburetors." Not only was the CIS completely bypassed, but they left hoses off, bare wires laying down, the alternator unplugged, and adjusted the idle at the carbs to hit 700 and stay there, warm or cold. Yeah they put in new points and plugs, (with #s 2 and 4 extension leads on #s 1 and 3 as well,) and changed the oil, but I really think they did more harm than good. THIS is why people buy mediocre carbs for $700. THIS is why these cars can acquire a bad reputation with spouses, neighbors, and the public. I'm speaking with the shop on Friday.

May this bus live to see many more roads,
Robbie

Image
(So what if I was preoccupied at the time and I stole these pictures from his gallery. Same bus…)

PS- I'm going back soon with the right tools and more time to adjust the carbs properly for high speed sync and idle sync. There's still some decel backfiring, though power is smooth and consistent through the RPM range cold and warm now.

PPS- Airhead parts sold me two clutch cables that were too short last year. This bus has a cable that is too long, so every gear grinds. From where? Airhead parts, of course. They hung up on me twice last time, saying the cables were too old for them to do anything about. Well this one's fresh. And I'm out for blood.
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Amskeptic
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Re: '73 hightop bus adventures

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:43 am

asiab3 wrote: Test drive notes:
Me, thinking, "holy shit that actually worked,"
The owner's wondering how something free could make it drive so much better.

The kicker?
A receipt from a local garage for $1,400, itemized including five hours spent "tuning and optimizing carburetors."

I'm out for blood.
Robbie,
First of all, thank you for doing good in a world that seems to be going bad.
Second of all, I reckon you have destroyed that owner's well-earned cynicism.
Third, I am ratcheting up a Righteous Rage, Yea, and Tell It To The People,
I am getting SORELY irritated at unacceptable practices and horrendous expenditures borne by my customers, people who deserve better than this, for work they cannot work with.
It is robbing Our People Of Joy.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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asiab3
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Re: '73 hightop bus adventures

Post by asiab3 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:49 am

Thank you for taking the time to read that. I was angry, and now I realize also quite verbose.

I have destroyed his desire to buy shiny stuff from a catalogue, and maybe his cynicism too...

We have to figure out how to get our suppliers to reimburse us for time wasted installing their crap parts. (Clutch cables, in this case.) If a shop installed it and charged us, of course we would have a receipt to prove it. But when new owners try to do it right and install bad parts themselves (6 hours for this guy- long but he didn't give up!) the owners chalk it up to being new at it. This ALSO creates a sour taste in the mouths of new owners who are driven away from diving in and fixing more themselves.

Last time I called Airhead about my clutch cable being too short, they said I ordered them too long ago to do anything about. I politely (not really) reminded them that I bought the cable as a spare and I was laying in a taco shop parking lot with no clutch in rush hour traffic because of them.

Robbie, rattled.

PS- Speaking of Airhead, my lifetime warranty stering wheel cracked, and when I brought it to them, they said "no we never made one with a warranty." Sure enough, the webpage was gone. BUT someone on the Samba had a screenshot of a cached version of the page SHOWING THE WARRANTY. I have yet to investigate this one; I want to see the looks on their faces in person next time I drive up there.
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Amskeptic
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Re: '73 hightop bus adventures

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:05 am

asiab3 wrote: PS- Speaking of Airhead, my lifetime warranty steering wheel cracked, and when I brought it to them, they said "no we never made one with a warranty." Sure enough, the webpage was gone. BUT someone on the Samba had a screenshot of a cached version of the page SHOWING THE WARRANTY. I have yet to investigate this one; I want to see the looks on their faces in person next time I drive up there.
Excellent! Please give us a run down of a worthy gotcha moment. It could help brighten our day.

Keep your cameras ready, get your screen shots, stay on top of the new world of dasdardly.
That South Carolina officer, for example . . . (see: Walter Scott)
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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asiab3
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Re: '73 hightop bus adventures

Post by asiab3 » Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:04 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
asiab3 wrote: PS- Speaking of Airhead, my lifetime warranty steering wheel cracked, and when I brought it to them, they said "no we never made one with a warranty." Sure enough, the webpage was gone. BUT someone on the Samba had a screenshot of a cached version of the page SHOWING THE WARRANTY. I have yet to investigate this one; I want to see the looks on their faces in person next time I drive up there.
Excellent! Please give us a run down of a worthy gotcha moment. It could help brighten our day.
All I did was MENTION this over the phone and they're sending me a new wheel. Odd, because they do not list new early bus wheels on their site, and they did not have them when I stormed their office two years ago. They're also sending me TWO sets of two piece muffler kits. I explained the issue of leakage from one-piece kits in my first email, and when that went unanswered, my email to them last night about monoxide poisoning sure got someones attention. They even said to keep the one-piece kits to save myself having to ship them back.

A web archive of the steering wheel product page, seen online 6/16/12.
http://web.archive.org/web/201206161005 ... 98651-d-bk
Keep your cameras ready, get your screen shots, stay on top of the new world of dasdardly....
Last time I dealt with clutch cables from them, mine was too short, (see below.) This '73 bus cable is too long, and while I could drill out the front block to accept a new hole to effectively "shorten" it, I would rather go through the process of raising a stink.

Here is the Airhead parts no-name cable on the left, and the Jbugs Italian Special (Cofle? I think?) on the right. The Airhead cable was even missing the anti-chafe sleeve that every other cable I've ever seen has.

I didn't get tape measure readings because I was living out of the bus at the time with minimal garage access.

Image
...That South Carolina officer, for example . . . (see: Walter Scott)
While it sure is sickening, I'm almost glad there is action being taken. Moving my thoughts to the police/free speech thread...
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Amskeptic
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Re: '73 hightop bus adventures

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:29 pm

asiab3 wrote: All I did was MENTION this over the phone and they're sending me a new wheel.

A web archive of the steering wheel product page, seen online 6/16/12.
http://web.archive.org/web/201206161005 ... 98651-d-bk
That sure does say "guaranteed for the life of the car."
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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asiab3
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Re: '73 hightop bus adventures

Post by asiab3 » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:08 pm

asiab3 wrote: Last time I dealt with clutch cables from them, mine was too short, (see below.) This '73 bus cable is too long, and while I could drill out the front block to accept a new hole to effectively "shorten" it, I would rather go through the process of raising a stink.
The only stink is here in my diagnostic skills. Pulled the cable out and measured it against a spare of a different brand/supplier, (Pex, of Germany.) Identical length, maybe a few millimeters off. So what gives?

Then I took a closer look at the front transaxle mount and noticed something was fishy. That, and I noticed the boxy cutout in the front mat for an automatic gear selector box… And the automatic shift diagram on the ash try… And I betcha there's all kinds of other stuff I missed too. So now I reach up and count the ribs on the transaxle and count five. That explains why I have to wind it up over 50mph in third to get a decent shift into fourth. That explains why the transaxle looks a little different than my 002… (The bell housing looks immensely different; could it be swapped from an 091 as well??) And that explains why I ended up using my spare early bay clutch cable in this bus and was rewarded with excellent shifting AFTER ADJUSTING THE STOP PLATE. (Derek, if you read this, I forgot to mention that it was REVERSE that was grinding, not second…) :drunken:

So my new steering wheel and exhaust gasket sets are in the mail no charge, and we'll see how my crow eating tastes about the clutch cable. But I still got two short ones two years ago and I'm still bitter!

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Amskeptic
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Re: '73 hightop bus adventures

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:12 am

asiab3 wrote: The only stink is here in my diagnostic skills.
So now I reach up and count the ribs on the transaxle and count five.
That explains why I have to wind it up over 50mph in third to get a decent shift into fourth.
That explains why the transaxle looks a little different than my 002
(The bell housing looks immensely different; could it be swapped from an 091 as well??)

But I still got two short ones two years ago and I'm still bitter!
Robbie
Slooooow down. What is the engine number on this bus?

What do you mean "I have to wind it up to over 50 for a 'decent' shift"?
Every bus on Earth can shift at 40 mph delightfully enough on the level.
Colin Curiouser
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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asiab3
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Re: '73 hightop bus adventures

Post by asiab3 » Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:40 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
Slooooow down. What is the engine number on this bus?

What do you mean "I have to wind it up to over 50 for a 'decent' shift"?
Every bus on Earth can shift at 40 mph delightfully enough on the level.
Colin Curiouser
Ha! Posting on lunch break makes me post in a hurry so I don't miss the lovely opportunity to punch back into a time clock.

I will find the engine number and get back to you. It started with CB, but I can not remember the rest.

It shifts into fourth for a putter around town fine at 40. If you try for any sort of quick acceleration, 50 maybe higher is much better, and sounds like 3,800 RPM. 3,800 RPM in my bus is around 40 with my 002. Isn't a '73 supposed to have the same rear axle ratios?

I know I counted 5 "ribs" on top of the transaxle where mine has three.

New question:
The mechanics had "tune and optimize carbs, re-jet as needed" written on the receipt. Should I pull the carbs apart to inspect the jet numbers, or should we just do some highway plug reading? LM1 said 14.5 at warm idle after my "ear" adjustment, though his bus didn't have a 12v outlet for a road test. (The central idle circuit and fast idle arms on these carbs are fascinating. I love seeing all this stuff in person after reading about it for so long.)

Robbie
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Amskeptic
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Re: '73 hightop bus adventures

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:19 pm

asiab3 wrote: engine number started with CB
If you try for any sort of quick acceleration, 50 maybe higher is much better, and sounds like 3,800 RPM. 3,800 RPM in my bus is around 40 with my 002. Isn't a '73 supposed to have the same rear axle ratios?

I counted 5 "ribs" on top of the transaxle where mine has three.

Should I pull the carbs apart to inspect the jet numbers, or should we just do some highway plug reading? LM1 said 14.5 at warm idle after my "ear" adjustment,
Any Type 4 engine pulls an additional 1,000 rpm over the Type 1. That was the new dawn for 1972 and up bus owners. The 1700 Type 4 engine coupled to a 002 5.38 rear axle shifts happily at 50 mph, the rev limiter (5,400 rpm) hits at 59 mph in 3rd.

The five-rib transaxle (equipped with 1800 engines originally) may/should have the 4.86 rear axle which means a good solid pull up to 60 mph (horsepower peak) and 66 in 3rd at rev-limiter time.

Just check the plugs and assess the power output. You may have a bored out 1700 > 1800 engine.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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ryan@schassen.com
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Re: '73 hightop bus adventures

Post by ryan@schassen.com » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:41 am

an interesting read! ;)

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Re: '73 hightop bus adventures

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:56 am

ryan@schassen.com wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:41 am
an interesting read! ;)
It is! It was! Where did it leave off?
Me? I shift at 40 mph in Chloe these days. If I am in a do-or-die traffic merge emergency, I shift at a screaming 45 mph.
Yep. We drive hard, by cracky,
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Re: '73 hightop bus adventures

Post by ryan@schassen.com » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:28 am

[/media]https://www.facebook.com/ryan.schassen/ ... 151/[media]

Fun weekend with this high-top! Cruised to southern Oregon with it's new type 1 1776 without issue, roughly 500 miles round trip. Still have to complete the free flow oil system, add the CHT, and fix the mirror situation prior to our Redwood trip next month. All is good with this high-top named Chuck after my wife's grandfather...the most laid back, happy man I have ever known.

To catch this thread up here is what has been replaced since Chuck's arrival in Portland:
Entire brake system reviewed and fixed where needed (rear wheel cylinders, pads, soft lines, drums)
Replaced all shocks, steering dampener, tie rods, and tighten steering box
Replaced throttle linkage with Butsy Bits mechanisim
New throttle cable & clutch cable
New Hankook R18's
Fixed the wipers
Removed stock propane tank & internal cabinet
All lights now work
New motor - w/ manifold & muffler, starter
New fuel lines, oil lines
Removed A LOT of electrical crap
Fuel Tank filler neck
Installed trailer hitch
Replaced rear bumper
Completed Paint on nose
New rear Axles and boots
New rear windows seals
New full time bed

Purchased & waiting for install:
New sliders for fiberglass top from Motion Windows
New solid glass for side middle windows
New windshield seal
New windshield metal (all around)
New top, fixing rusted out gutter rails
Wiring for single wheel trailer
Ball joints
Interior panels
New vent for fiberglass top
Steering column (fixes aftermarket ignition and blinker switch - going early Bay)

That is it for now, this fall and winter we are hoping to have a rebuilt bus by the time Woodburn rolls around next spring. Paint & Body work included.

Ryan

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