IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

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asiab3
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IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by asiab3 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:05 pm

I got a text message from an old high school friend last week, she saw my bus pictures on Facebook and got me in touch with her boss, who says this:

"Hi Robbie, [blah blah blah] my mechanic says my bus is unfixable, and we're about to scrap it. It was willed to us by our late uncle, but we can't afford to restore it. Do you know any cheaper mechanics in the LA area?"

To which I reply "Send me a description of the problem, a picture of the engine compartment, and everything your mechanic told you."

"When you get to a stop light it wants to stall, and it won't idle without giving it gass. The mechanic says it's unfixable because the Fuel Injection system is super hard to work with. He won't work on it even if we pay him extra. It's a 76 Transponder [sic] and I've attatched the picture."

So fellow enthusiats, how would YOU respond when you're sent this picture from a bus that was about to be junked?

Image

Frankly I can't wait to work on the thing. People are always asking me for help with their bugs, bringing them in to my driveway a few puffs away from completely burning up. Open the lid to find no tin, seals, air filter, and an empi carb. This is going to be like a warm bath after being stranded at sea for days.

Oh, and does anyone want to take a bet where the vacuum leak is? :geek:

I WILL NOT let this bus fall out of their life this easily. I wouldn't mind it falling into mine though :blackeye:
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Bleyseng
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by Bleyseng » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:39 pm

Its a vacuum leak for sure probably the little rubber T for the brake booster or the AAR rubber 90. The mechanic isn't a real mechanic if he is afraid of Ljet as its sooo easy to work on.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

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tristessa
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by tristessa » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:37 pm

To the current owner of the Bus: Get a new mechanic, stat. I don't care how "good" he is with six-year-old Toyotas, that attitude belongs nowhere near a Bus, not even for an oil change.

As far as the vacuum leak, I'd first look at the hoses that connect to the S-boot.
Remember, only YOU can prevent narcissism!

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asiab3
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by asiab3 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:59 am

tristessa wrote:To the current owner of the Bus: Get a new mechanic, stat. I don't care how "good" he is with six-year-old Toyotas, that attitude belongs nowhere near a Bus, not even for an oil change.
We've already been over this. I'll be teaching them basic tune-up skills (like the oil change...) and I'll be running things like the AFM adjustment procedure myself. Of course all after valves, points, timing, and making DAMN SURE there are no more vacuum leaks.

I don't want to name names, but I might accidentally paste the mechanic's website here.

http://pinkysautomotive.com/ :vom:
As far as the vacuum leak, I'd first look at the hoses that connect to the S-boot.

Are the hoses the same size as carb buses? I haven't had to replace one before.
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Amskeptic
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:36 am

asiab3 wrote: Are the hoses the same size as carb buses? I haven't had to replace one before.
Ahhhhhh . . . . no.

Keep me in mind if the issue doesn't present itself readily . . .
ColinAlwaysHawkingMyWares
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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asiab3
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by asiab3 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:20 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
asiab3 wrote: Keep me in mind if the issue doesn't present itself readily . . .


Of course. It appears you have some time after the 28th of June on the Itinerary… Unless Chloe really takes half a month to get to Utah :joker:
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Amskeptic
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by Amskeptic » Thu May 01, 2014 5:02 am

Bleyseng wrote:Its a vacuum leak for sure
This is not permissible on the Itinerant Air-Cooled site. If you want to read a cascade of certainty by people who do not have the information yet send others on all number of goose chases . . . you know where to go.
ColinWe AskForInformationHere
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Amskeptic
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by Amskeptic » Thu May 01, 2014 5:08 am

asiab3 wrote:
Amskeptic wrote:
asiab3 wrote: Keep me in mind if the issue doesn't present itself readily . . .


Of course. It appears you have some time after the 28th of June on the Itinerary… Unless Chloe really takes half a month to get to Utah :joker:
I find time for the issues that stump people . . .
Looks good in that engine compartment.
You'll keep us updated on this?
I can't wait to visit Pinky. If I am in the BobD, I am going to pull the brake booster pipe off the rubber wye, "my car don't go too good. I'll pay any price. Please help."
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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asiab3
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by asiab3 » Thu May 01, 2014 7:39 am

Amskeptic wrote: I find time for the issues that stump people . . .
Looks good in that engine compartment.
You'll keep us updated on this?
I can't wait to visit Pinky. If I am in the BobD, I am going to pull the brake booster pipe off the rubber wye, "my car don't go too good. I'll pay any price. Please help."
Colin
Oh please don't let them touch your Volkswagens.....

I'll keep a dilligent update. We're scheduled for May 10th. :salute:
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Bleyseng
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by Bleyseng » Thu May 01, 2014 9:22 am

Amskeptic wrote:
Bleyseng wrote:Its a vacuum leak for sure
This is not permissible on the Itinerant Air-Cooled site. If you want to read a cascade of certainty by people who do not have the information yet send others on all number of goose chases . . . you know where to go.
ColinWe AskForInformationHere

What! I am supposed to give detail instructions on how to find a vacuum leak on Ljet when Pinky's Automotive couldn't do it? Maybe he should look in the ljet section......as I am at work, working on geez what I am working on it's so effin hot here.
Maybe buying the Ljet hose kit from German Supply is in order before Colin gets there so you can replace them all together. Plus the fuel lines, injector seals, fuel filter, points, condensor, plug wires, spark plugs and valve cover gaskets when you adjust the valves.

Then you can do burn outs in front of Pinky's going Nah,Nah....it runs great!
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

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asiab3
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by asiab3 » Thu May 01, 2014 10:59 am

Sorry let me clear up the confusion- the couple that owns this bus wants to scrap it. They said they will wait for me to inspect it to see if it can be fixed for cheap. I'm fairly certain it can be, and I want to help them feel a little bit of Volkswagen Love so they might respect the bus more. I hope they take a liking to it enough to call upon Colin's service. If they don't, I'll buy them out of it to keep it out of the crusher.

I will meet the bus on May 10th and get back to all of you. My L-Jet hose question comes from working on some buses that had hoses connected wrong and disconnected, I've never had to buy any.

RobbieReadingAndReadingAndReading
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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Amskeptic
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by Amskeptic » Mon May 05, 2014 5:32 am

Bleyseng wrote:
Amskeptic wrote:
Bleyseng wrote:Its a vacuum leak for sure
This is not permissible on the Itinerant Air-Cooled site. If you want to read a cascade of certainty by people who do not have the information yet send others on all number of goose chases . . . you know where to go.
ColinWe AskForInformationHere

What! I am supposed to give detail instructions on how to find a vacuum leak on Ljet when Pinky's Automotive couldn't do it?
No!! Don't be obtuse!
We are not supposed to tell people what the problem is when we are not there to verify!!
That is my point! We ask questions about symptoms and the condition of parts, then we narrow it down. We follow a diagnostic path.

It drives me crazy to see how many people have been sent down stupid dead-ends because some keyboard sage decides to tell them what is wrong with their car. You may not remember my dealing with a customer who had been sent around in circles with new fuel pump and carburetor suggestions when he had merely run out of gas.

And we don't answer questions that are thoughtless!
"Hey doodes, I have a rad van it sometimes stalls at lights what's wrong?"
"It's prolly a vaccum leak. Replace the intake manifold. I had a leak there."

Not here!!
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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Bleyseng
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by Bleyseng » Mon May 05, 2014 9:34 am

"It drives me crazy to see how many people have been sent down stupid dead-ends because some keyboard sage decides to tell them what is wrong with their car. You may not remember my dealing with a customer who had been sent around in circles with new fuel pump and carburetor suggestions when he had merely run out of gas.

Haha, now that I haven't done but odds on if it's idling at 1800 or higher rpms, stalls when you give it gas, won't idle unless you stay on the gas the First place to look on Ljet is a vacuum leak. Where exactly dunno but a desktop mechanics odds on bet is the brake rubber tee or the AAR rubber elbows.
Second place to look is the S intake boot
Third is the injector seals, yes the inside O rings that harden to rocks over the years
Fourth is all the vacuum hoses that are going everywhere that again turn rock hard and crack on the backside so you can't see it. Then they are too loose and leak.
If these all check out then try the carb cleaner find the leak game with the engine running. Spray a little at each hose, manifold, joint and see if the idle rpms go up. Ah Ha, then you have found the leak.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/

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Amskeptic
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by Amskeptic » Thu May 08, 2014 9:10 am

Bleyseng wrote: odds are if it's idling at 1800 or higher rpms, stalls when you give it gas, won't idle unless you stay on the gas the First place to look on Ljet is a vacuum leak.
Odds are, yes. But our budding mechanics have to be trained to l :cyclopsani: :cyclopsani: k.

You know when some passive types just ask endless questions. We train them to investigate here.
S-boots are the most difficult part to demand a careful inspection. Even when I am there, some people just don't focus enough to get down there, take it off, clean it inspect the pleats in strong light . . . "really, it looks good."
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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asiab3
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Re: IAC wannabe, or, DON'T JUNK THAT BUS!

Post by asiab3 » Sat May 10, 2014 4:44 pm

The bus shall live to see another adventure :cheers:

Not that it took a lot of brains to figure out...

We started with a pop quiz of "what am I pointing to?" to assess their knowledge (and willingness to learn,) when I was suddenly told we had three hours to work instead of eight. Ok, better go quick! A brief overview of VW engines, L-Jet, and Kettering ignition followed, with poorly drawn diagrams by yours truly. Although the engine is not REALLY 16 rectangles and circles with labels, I thought I did a good job drawing it like a Venn diagram showing how different parts are related. (ie- how the fan cools and engine AND heats the cabin. Or how the amount of air and amount of fuel has to be correct, and how the AFM meters one and "dispenses" another. We ignored things like the AAR and CSV for now.)

We started getting dirty with a valve adjustment since the engine was cold. All of the exhaust valves were tight, and most of the intakes too. They told me "it starts and drives fine but won't idle when you stop." True to tale, it started. Well, I guess you could say it started. The starter chugged mightily while the engine gave occasional coughs of smoke. Almost 20 seconds of chugging got the bus running. Rough, but running.

I'm sorry, I know FI buses don't start with a quick flick like a cold carb bus does, but this was absurd. Add piss-poor start to the list of symptoms. Since valves were known good, I hooked up my timing light and dwell meter. 205AB distributor (originally DVDA, here with an advance-only replacement can,) showed 5* atdc at idle, (20* hoses off,) which is the idle spec if you follow the book with a working/existent vacuum can. I bumped it to 28* hoses off, and noted that the vacuum advance went to nearly 40* on high RPM overrun. Now it idled around 5*btdc. I personally think the installed vacuum advance can is too much for a bus. It looks tiny and not the same silver color as Bosch cans.

Now I know my 1600 is in good shape, and it revs quickly with quick throttle actuation, but this 2.0 looked better than it sounded. Ok, timing is good, but I should have set dwell first what does the meter say now SEVENTY????? Yes, the dwell meter read 70* so I chuckled inside and shut it down. Removed the distributor to show them points and how they open… Wait… I know I still have a lot to learn, but I KNOW points are supposed to open and close. Under a microscope these probably opened too, but I could not get my .003 (smallest at hand) feeler gauge in there. Add to that a GIANT pit/tit combo, and you get this distributor. I have a bazillion sets of points floating around my back seat, glove box, jetta, sock drawer, so I gave them one. Want to know how to impress someone who's never worked on cars? Show up with a bin of parts that they need, right at that moment. :) They baked me brownies and had a bin of fresh fruit waiting for me afterwards. Best 10$ I've ever spent.

I know Type4 engines aren't any "harder" to work on, but I'll be dipped in weasels if the clamp and timing nuts aren't a pain to get to compared to my T1 bus. The distributor went in fine, and we started it up and it ROARED to life instantly. Their kid came RUNNING down the stairs and stared yelling and cheering. These cars have soul, this kid can tell too. I really feel like this family has a renewed interest in this bus, and I'm glad I could surprise them with how easy it is to make a big fix with only a little effort and willingness.

Yeah yeah we did the timing properly after setting dwell, and test drive rewarded us with a NASTY grind with every attempt at 2nd gear. The stop plate ended up being in backwards. I felt a pain in my heart when I was mentally debating the diagnosis when I saw him go for reverse without pressing down. Now we're shifting smoother, running good (not great, more on that later,) and they can't wait to take it to her dad's house (original owner) next month. I know there's a lot of techno babble in here, and there was definitely too much information exchanged at them by me today. But all that evaporated when I saw their faces light up and son start cheering. This is why I can't let these cars suffer.

(Ok, so idle is fairly smooth, but I hear a TINY hiss coming from somewhere in the intake system. I sprayed every connection, wiggled every connection, and could not hear or see a change. Does any component in a proper L-Jet system naturally hiss? The only issue I SAW was the brake booster pipe- the one way valve was in front of the fire wall, and in the engine compartment was the plastic 69-70 brake fluid reservoir hose clamped INTO the rubber Y from the decal valve/intake plenum/brake booster. It went through the firewall and was then clamped into a rubber gates brake hose then into the check valve, then into the metal main tube. Is the real compartment booster line metal, rubber, or a hybrid? I have no prior experience with power brakes :blackeye: but I would love to narrow down the cause of hissing.)
1969 bus, "Buddy."
145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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