Restarting after 12 years in storage

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TrollFromDownBelow
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Re: Restarting after 12 years in storage

Post by TrollFromDownBelow » Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:54 pm

jonyem wrote: From all that I've read about home paint jobs, I know going into it that most of the work is in the prep, and I'm counting on masking, masking and more masking. And probably a little more masking.

Jonathan
Actually when I paint, try to do as little masking as possible. :rabbit: no, doesn't mean the car comes out monochrome (although I did do that once for a friend who campaigned an older 3 series BMW at the track...made sense that time). I try to remove as much trim as absolutely possible. It gives you the cleanest, most professional look. Pretty much everything except windows and seals get removed...and to do a really good job, these s/be removed too.
1976 VW Bus aka tripod
FI ...not leaky, and not so noisy...and she runs awesome!
hambone wrote: There are those out there with no other aim but to bunch panties. It's like arguing with a pretzel.
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Amskeptic
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Re: Restarting after 12 years in storage

Post by Amskeptic » Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:21 pm

TrollFromDownBelow wrote:
jonyem wrote: From all that I've read about home paint jobs, I know going into it that most of the work is in the prep, and I'm counting on masking, masking and more masking. And probably a little more masking.

Jonathan
Actually when I paint, try to do as little masking as possible. :rabbit: no, doesn't mean the car comes out monochrome (although I did do that once for a friend who campaigned an older 3 series BMW at the track...made sense that time). I try to remove as much trim as absolutely possible. It gives you the cleanest, most professional look. Pretty much everything except windows and seals get removed...and to do a really good job, these s/be removed too.
Good points, but the thing that makes it such a masking treat is when you have the white/color combination. Taking headlamp buckets and side markers and taillamps out is barely an hour, faster than taping, really. With the Road Warrior as a deluxe white interior blue interior, I had a whole lot of interfaces to deal with and NO OVERSPRAY ALLOWED particularly inside doors. I had to mask the insides of the doors, the entire interior at the door openings, tuck the tape inside the rubber inside the channels, and our white/color deluxe buses have white inside the doors along the front ventilation slots, here's a picture, you figure it out X four door openings:

Image

Image

Image
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

webwalker
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Re: Restarting after 12 years in storage

Post by webwalker » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:13 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
webwalker wrote:So after quite a while pecking away at this (while life pecks away at me) I've performed the following operations for component and system testing:
7. Engine now starts, but almost runs away in RPM, likely vacuum leaks like a sieve.

The only upgrade I intend is
replacement of exchangers to early style
a Pertronix unit
rear shift rod bushings
R&R the fuel tank,
What about the rear shift bushings do you not like?
Colin
The only bushing still in place is the grommet that holds the front shift rod in place. All of the bushings for the rear shift rod (three, since my CE1 is a 77-1/2) are MIA. The mechanic who maintained the vehicle for the original owner, and who has been very helpful with information (including maintenance notes in his old computer about this vehicle, everything done to it, etc.) noted that the last time he worked on the Bus, the rear shifter bushings were missing and the owner refused to single one more cent into the vehicle.

The shifter would scare the life out of someone attempting to drive it as there is an enormous radius of play at the stick. First gear feels like its up by the dash, and second gear feels like its halfway to back seat. Third and fourth are at the knee and hip joints of the passenger. :blackeye: (/hyperbole)

Here's the shop supplement ratwell references:

Image

I'm pulling the engine for all sorts of general cleaning, replace the fuel tank while that's out, and as long as both of THEM are out, pull the trans to remove the rear rod and replace the bushings.

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Amskeptic
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Re: Restarting after 12 years in storage

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:31 pm

webwalker wrote: I'm pulling the engine for all sorts of general cleaning, replace the fuel tank while that's out, and as long as both of THEM are out, pull the trans to remove the rear rod and replace the bushings.
Please be aware that many new bushings suffer from flashing that prevents the "dowels" from getting into the locator holes in the shift rod.

If the gear shifter is mega sloppy at the front of the car, you need to look at the pin that locates the shifter in the socket of the front shift rod. When that pin wears flat along the sides, the shifter can rotate a bit which makes things feel vague.
Even with a new front bushing, you may find things loose up there, particularly on earlier-than-74 buses. You can shim/wrap the plastic bushing where it goes in the shift rod, and this will pinch it down onto the locator bushing better.
Keep us posted on developments here.
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

webwalker
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Re: Restarting after 12 years in storage

Post by webwalker » Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:59 pm

Colin,

Pardon my idiocity :blackeye: could you expand on your comments? Do you mean a pin located at the front of #3 in this diagram?

Image

My last bus driving experience was twenty years ago, and obviously, some of my memories of what things 'should' feel like are vague. I recall being less than impressed with the extent of the throw in my 71 Deluxe and being young and stupid (I'm only one of those now) put on the classic 'quick shift kit.' I was much satisfied with the improvement.

If you wanted to pull the shifting on your bus in as tight as possible, what would you do after you checked the aforementioned pin? What would you do after you'd done a complete replacement of all of the shift rod bushings?

M

TrollFromDownBelow
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Re: Restarting after 12 years in storage

Post by TrollFromDownBelow » Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:46 pm

Amskeptic wrote: I had to mask the insides of the doors, the entire interior at the door openings, tuck the tape inside the rubber inside the channels, and our white/color deluxe buses have white inside the doors along the front ventilation slots, here's a picture, you figure it out X four door openings:

Image
Hey! I resemble that picture! Wait, that is me....about 20 lbs ago. :(

I'm guessing that may have been year one or two of the engine transplant...(do I see another block in the background?) Before the death of the Warrior by a 19 yo twit in an Eclipse or something.
1976 VW Bus aka tripod
FI ...not leaky, and not so noisy...and she runs awesome!
hambone wrote: There are those out there with no other aim but to bunch panties. It's like arguing with a pretzel.
::troll2::

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Amskeptic
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Re: Restarting after 12 years in storage

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:30 pm

TrollFromDownBelow wrote: Hey! I resemble that picture! Wait, that is me....about 20 lbs ago. :(
Me too, man, me too . . .

Pretty wasn't it?

Webwalker, yes that is the guide pin that is spring-loaded in the shifter ball down there.

Please think carefully of the physics here, the shift rod bushings do NOT materially affect the precision of the shift. Even when they are not installed! the shift rod does not move in any way to reduce your precision. It will rattle like crazy, yes.
The coupler does affect precision of shifting. It must be inspected carefully with a strong light while someone moves the shifter sideways back and forth in any gear. You will see the shift rod rotate and the cage too, but not the grub screw.
It is a **press fit** between the cage and the grub screw collar. I know, how lousy is that? Even new couplers, especially new couplers, can have this looseness.
The grub screw collar at the front/rear shift rod "joint can possibly wallow the hole in the smaller diameter rod, causing terribly vagueness. Check here with the side-to-side movement of your willing and patient assistant.
The front shift rod bushing is the only support bushing that has a material effect on precision, because it is so close to the fulcrum of the shifter.
The "hockey stick ball" inside of the transaxle can sometimes cause grief, but it is usually that you can't even find a bunch of gears.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

72Hardtop
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Re: Restarting after 12 years in storage

Post by 72Hardtop » Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:53 am

(NADA 02/26/2013) 1972 Transporter - Campmobile


Low Avg. High
MSRP $3,848 $8,250 $16,500 $32,700
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's

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Amskeptic
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Re: Restarting after 12 years in storage

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:07 pm

72Hardtop wrote:(NADA 02/26/2013) 1972 Transporter - Campmobile


Low Avg. High
MSRP $3,848 $8,250 $16,500 $32,700
Stateside or Japan? I better check NADA for the 7-passengers. If Chloe is going that far up, I may have to cancel the Itinerary and just dust it in the living room.
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

72Hardtop
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Location: Seattle, WA./HB. Ca./Shizuoka, Japan
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Re: Restarting after 12 years in storage

Post by 72Hardtop » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:05 pm

Those were the numbers for stateside.
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's

webwalker
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Re: Restarting after 12 years in storage

Post by webwalker » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:16 am

Amskeptic wrote: Webwalker, yes that is the guide pin that is spring-loaded in the shifter ball down there.

Please think carefully of the physics here, the shift rod bushings do NOT materially affect the precision of the shift. Even when they are not installed! the shift rod does not move in any way to reduce your precision. It will rattle like crazy, yes.
The coupler does affect precision of shifting. It must be inspected carefully with a strong light while someone moves the shifter sideways back and forth in any gear. You will see the shift rod rotate and the cage too, but not the grub screw.
It is a **press fit** between the cage and the grub screw collar. I know, how lousy is that? Even new couplers, especially new couplers, can have this looseness.
The grub screw collar at the front/rear shift rod "joint can possibly wallow the hole in the smaller diameter rod, causing terribly vagueness. Check here with the side-to-side movement of your willing and patient assistant.
The front shift rod bushing is the only support bushing that has a material effect on precision, because it is so close to the fulcrum of the shifter.
The "hockey stick ball" inside of the transaxle can sometimes cause grief, but it is usually that you can't even find a bunch of gears.
Colin
Well, thanks to everyone for their comments, I now have the shift rod assemblies back together and in their correct places. I bought a new front bushing for the rear rod from Wolfsburg West and it is clearly their manufacture. The quality was quite good and no trimming of flashing or trimming the locating studs. I re-used the two rear bushings.

The front bushing for the front rod was completely missing, hence the 'yardstick in a fishbowl' shifting. I'll have the whole thing back together tonight (might even get the trans back in tonight!) so I'll have more to report.

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Re: Restarting after 12 years in storage

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:39 pm

webwalker wrote: The front bushing for the front rod was completely missing, hence the 'yardstick in a fishbowl' shifting. I'll have the whole thing back together tonight (might even get the trans back in tonight!) so I'll have more to report.
Yardstick in a fishbowl. That describes it.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

webwalker
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Re: Restarting after 12 years in storage

Post by webwalker » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:09 pm

A lot has happened since that shift rod went in. The trans is clean (reeely clean) and back in place, CVs repacked and connected.
Here's what I started with:
Image
And what I ended with:
Image

All tucked away
Image

Fuel tank came out and I spent a weekend making the inside and the outside shipshape, and developing a new contempt for 'Safe Hydrochloric Acid' and an awed respect for the full potency stuff. The new tank sealer has eight days of cure on it, but is still waiting for a certain vendor to get off their dead duff and ship me the sender they owe me.
Image

In the meantime, I opted for some rust remediation. The fuel tank tray was ground on and then hit with self etching primer, and then a topcoat of silver enamel. (I have far too many cans of paint to be used up. This was in a place that needed a top coat but won't see daylight again for another long time. So I used a color that I have no other use for as a top coat.) I also added some noise killer to the front of the fuel area where it can kill much of the rattle. Image

This is when I stepped up my game with Corroseal. Portions of the engine compartment side of the left rear wheel well needed something to get the light rust stopped. I sanded, and then painted with Corroseal (an industrial formulation of tannic acid and a polymer.) Remaining surface rust turned black, polymer seals out O2 and makes a great base for a service topcoat. I'm very pleased with it.

Still no fuel sender, so I moved on to the rear side windows, which had some corrosion damage where water had been wicking down into the seal from the vent windows for decades. I stripped the whole affair, going to solid glass until I can score a slider for the rear. In the mean time, clean up all of the damage to the surface. Got it well clean, then hit the rusted surfaces with a low speed dremel with a brass brush end, getting as much of the red oxide out as possible. Then sealed it with Corroseal. After I provide the same treatment for the inside of both sliding door covers, they'll be ready to go back into service.

Sanded the life out of the partly rusty firewall, then hit it with the same self etching primer. Looks great now, and ready for another run.

I have purchased early exhaust components, the HX anyway. Now I have to chase down the rest of the early tin to get the engine ready. The engine has been waiting patiently for me to finish up its nest before I move on to proper cleaning and re-torquing. Very much wish the last part would arrive!

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Re: Restarting after 12 years in storage

Post by Amskeptic » Wed May 01, 2013 9:24 pm

webwalker wrote:A lot has happened since that shift rod went in. Very much wish the last part would arrive!
Looks good. Are you having fun, or does it feel more like "I sure would like to DRIVE this thing."
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

webwalker
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Re: Restarting after 12 years in storage

Post by webwalker » Tue May 07, 2013 7:17 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
webwalker wrote:A lot has happened since that shift rod went in. Very much wish the last part would arrive!
Looks good. Are you having fun, or does it feel more like "I sure would like to DRIVE this thing."
Colin
I want to bloody drive it. I'm doing as much as I can, as expeditiously (not "fast") as I can. But if I could piss dollar bills on it and have it magically runnable, I would.

Got the last parts for fuel today. What *Is* customer service coming to? Also have my nice sub in of a 2003 M-B Sprinter fuel hose to sub for the NLA bottom filler hose. Beautiful fit.

Image

Tomorrow I expect to button up the fuel tank enclosure and connections. Then we'll be ready to turn back to the engine.

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