Lucy's Refresh: 1973 Riviera Revival

[jonyem]

An early warning, I like a good introduction and I also want to be as in-depth as I can so I can refer back to this thread as I proceed with my work. Also, I'm posting in Type 2 instead of Engine because this will end up covering more than the engine. Back in July of '11 I was visited by Colin and we did some work on my bus. After that I intended to get on with repairs and have it on the road this spring. Well, whatever they say about best intentions is certainly true in my case. I've done almost nothing in that time, either due to weather or my own discouragement. (I find myself building motivation as the weather declines, I'll never understand that).

So enough of that, I've said to myself aloud more than once in the last few days.

Back in the write-up I did after Colin's visit ( viewtopic.php?f=65&t=9889 ) I mentioned that I wanted to do an engine rebuild. I've decided recently that I would still like to do that, but not for a while. I'd like to see what I can get out of it with a refresh. I'm laying this out here looking for suggestions, ideas, critiques and the occasional WTF?s.

So let's get to it.

Cylinder head: Instead of having the heads rebuilt, I'd like to try a Time-Sert on the #3 plug. I read in the instructions for the kit I'll need that it can be done with the head still on the engine. I might try it that way.

Question: Is it better to remove the head to tackle the Time-Sert, or should I just take that sucker out?
Also, where's the best place to buy the kit and the insert?

Fuel Sender: I don't need to remove the engine, but I do need to get at the fuel sender to replace it. So, removing it to get at the sender is an option. But I would prefer to just drop it enough to get at it. While I'm at it, I'd like to clean the filthy engine and the bay, so that could mean engine removal. I'm OK with that, but I would really like to avoid it since my tool supply and place to work is limited. I can borrow tools that I'll need, and maybe even a carport to work in, but I want to see what I can get away with my my yard.

Question: Can I remove the engine tin and clean the engine while it's still in the bus? I would also like to clean up the tin and probably paint it. Suggestions welcome.

I think this is a good place for me to start, but I would love to hear some recommendations on what else I could/should do while I'm tackling this area. Thanks all in advance.

[Gypsie]

I'm sure there will be more perspectives offered. Here's mine.

The plug repair could be done in place but you could easily leave metal chunks in the cylinder (not good). I did one in my vanagon but a vanagon has a lot more room and access to get a good angle for driving the tap in. I sucked the crap out of the cylinder by taping some fuel hose into the end of a shop vac so I could get vacuum down into the hole. I still likely left some shavings down there. If at all possible pull the head and do it on a bench.

I can't say much about the sender as I am not certain if you can get it out of the tank with the tank in place.

That said, I suggest that you bite a smaller bullet than a 'rebuild' in the classic sense (i.e. drop engine, tear it down, split the case, and rebuild to your satisfaction) and go with a full engine extraction for your items. You will still have to pull a goodly portion of stuff to remove the head with the engine in place anyway. With the engine out you will have easier access to a lot of parts and the task may go smoother. Get at the head with the engine on the stand (do you have an ATV jack? consider getting one as it will be very helpful to work with the engine). Then go to town with the sender unit and any fuel tank issues you find while your there, (all those breather lines etc). Take the time to look things over, clean what you want to clean, and take apart only the things you want to work on.

I believe that, even if you stick to the two items you have mentioned, extracting the engine will ease your pain. It will also give you a chance to overcome the first extraction hurdle, (this would be your first extraction if I'm recollecting right...?). If your only work area is on the grass or gravel lay down a sheet of plywood to roll a jack across. Just make sure the engine sits still on the base so it doesn't slide to a position where it slides off of the stand (ask me how I know....on second thought don't ask, I'm still a little sensitive about it. ) . You can roll the engine back under the bus when your not working on it. Does a '73 have the removable part so the engine can just be pulled out without having it's a$$ in the air?

Look through the bentley and any other resources you have for engine removal, make a plan, get your part sourcing lined up (buy those you know you will need) and assemble your tools. Take a deep breath and jump in.

We'll be here with words of encouragement and more opinions than you can shake a 13 mm combination at.

2 cents.

[satchmo]

I agree with Gypsie.

"Dropping the engine" has a certain kind of dread associated with it that is hard for the neophyte to overcome: it seems like such a huge undertaking. However, it is almost always the preferred route to go for work on cylinder heads, gas tank access, and cleaning of the engine/engine bay and many other things. In fact, engine removal is so frequently recommended for many repairs that I'm surprised it isn't the first step listed in the Bentley for replacing a light bulb (a little hyperbole there).

I'm sure you can get lots of suggestions on the easiest way to remove the engine tailored to whatever space you have available. If Colin can do it with a little bottle jack in parking lots all across America, I'm sure you can too.

Tim

[jonyem]

Thanks for the replies.

I will admit I was looking for the easy way out, but in this case I think I'd better take the not as easy way out. Full removal it is. I am worried about the condition of the fuel tank, which makes the engine removal all the more tolerable. And if I really want to clean the engine bay anyway, this really is the only way. And by the sounds of it, I'd just be adding to the difficulty by leaving it in.

Yes, the '73 would have to be lifted to drop the engine, and I will gather up all the tools I'll need. Luckily my Dad has a stash of tools from his days as a paid mechanic during the day, and a local stock car racer/mechanic in the evening.

I'm still just in the research/getting comfortable with the idea stage, deciding the route I want to take, before buying parts and then taking action.

[Amskeptic]

Thanks for the replies.
I'm still just in the research/getting comfortable with the idea stage, deciding the route I want to take, before buying parts and then taking action.

The bond with your car goes to a new level after an engine r&r.
Colin

[ruckman101]

I can only echo the suggestion to drop the engine. I can't imagine trying to pull the tin to clean and paint with it still in, and yes, all the rest will be much simpler, too, eliciting much fewer oaths of frustration.


neal

[Gypsie]

Thanks for the replies.
I'm still just in the research/getting comfortable with the idea stage, deciding the route I want to take, before buying parts and then taking action.

The bond with your car goes to a new level after an engine r&r.

'Specially if you have the right lube on hand..

[ruckman101]

And he isn't talking about the beer.


neal

[jonyem]

Going back to ask again: where is the best place to buy the Time-Sert kit? The best price I could find on line was $169.

[chitwnvw]

I can only echo the suggestion to drop the engine. I can't imagine trying to pull the tin to clean and paint with it still in, and yes, all the rest will be much simpler, too, eliciting much fewer oaths of frustration.

neal

It is very possible to remove all the tin with the engine in place...but in the end you probably want to clean the block and heads as well, so it is best to plan and bite the bullet.

As for the time cert, you may find it cheaper to pull the head and take it to a machinist, they usually have time certs already, so you'll only pay for his or her time and the stock...you'll probably get a 'free' assessment of the condition of the rest of the head's components at the same time.

If $s are a major concern most auto part stores have heli coils on the shelf, they don't give me the warm and fuzzy feeling that time certs do, but...

[jonyem]

Thanks for the reply, chitwnvw.

I'm going to skip the heli coil. That's what was in there when the plug blew out, and the thread is pretty bad.
I will look into a shop doing the time sert for me, that might save me some aggravation and if I can avoid buying a tool that has one use, when I could buy a multi use tool or parts.

Jonathan

[Gypsie]

Someone please tell me why this kind of kit won't work:
http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... CHsQ8wIwAQ

I like the having shop to the repair since it has been repaired once already. They do have oversize inserts for just such a thing but this in one area where it is likely worth the shop $$$.