Juliet, my 1978 Westy

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Amskeptic
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Re: Juliet, my 1978 Westy

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:38 am

Latest post of the previous page:

russwiththebus wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:13 pm
He didn't see it. Sucks I know, and combined with some other things that have happened, I wouldn't get another engine from him.

Regardless, I still think this is a good engine and it will run. I'm close.

What? What? What? What? He "didn't see" it? He didn't see it? He didn't see it?
What the . . ? He didn't see it?
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .110,350 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,775 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . 72,350 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,478 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 64,425 miles

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russwiththebus
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Re: Juliet, my 1978 Westy

Post by russwiththebus » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:18 pm

Well it was an adventurous, but short-lived weekend. Got the engine back in on Saturday and it runs! Went for a short drive and then discovered it's still leaking oil tremendously. This time, it was coming right from the oil cooler. Towed it back to the shop, and I just got done pulling the engine.

It looks to me that Vanagon oil coolers are slightly different. The holes are recessed more, and it seems like it just doesn't seal the same. That would account for all my oil coming out right there.

I have a new in box bus oil cooler from West Coast Metric, but it appears to be shaped slightly different still. I can't fit the bracket around the end, it's like a quarter inch larger.

There's another bus oil cooler here too, but it doesn't look great. Tomorrow I'm taking all my oil coolers down to a local VW shop to see what they have in stock, and examine to see if they will indeed fit. It's a huge setback, but I'm getting really good at pulling and installing my engine!

The good news: it did run pretty great. I was wondering if any of the FI would need some tweaking to get going, but nope, turn the key and go. I swear it's magic.

For now, PM me for the name.

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russwiththebus
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Re: Juliet, my 1978 Westy

Post by russwiththebus » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:24 pm

In other bus news: I fiddled with the dash lights some and found I had a few bulbs burned out (the ones for illumination, not the idiot lights). I've ordered a few from superbrightleds.com - specifically, the 74 LED Bulb - 3SMD LED - Miniature Wedge Retrofit.

I'm not completely sold on LED replacement bulbs all around just yet, and I've yet to find a definitive reference for which bulbs work best, but they're cheap enough to experiment with. I'll report my findings when they arrive.

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Re: Juliet, my 1978 Westy

Post by russwiththebus » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:40 pm

And now some photos.
IMG_2445.jpg
Vanagon oil cooler on the left, bus oil cooler on the right. I know the left is Vanagon cause it's stamped 1981. The one on the right came from a 1978 bus (not mine). I don't know, but the fill holes look slightly different to me.
IMG_2447.jpg
Next, the new oil cooler from WCM (I promise it's new, just dirty from my grimy fingers) on the left next to the Vanagon oil cooler on the right. It looks different than the other two, and my bracket will not fit. The other end seems about a quarter inch too tall and it simply won't go on.

And now I'm even more confused because Cal Pacific sells an oil cooler and claims it's compatible with Vanagons too: http://www.jbugs.com/product/021117021B.html
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Amskeptic
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Re: Juliet, my 1978 Westy

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:26 am

russwiththebus wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:40 pm
And now some photos.

IMG_2445.jpg

Vanagon oil cooler on the left, bus oil cooler on the right. I know the left is Vanagon cause it's stamped 1981. The one on the right came from a 1978 bus (not mine). I don't know, but the fill holes look slightly different to me.

IMG_2447.jpg

Next, the new oil cooler from WCM (I promise it's new, just dirty from my grimy fingers) on the left next to the Vanagon oil cooler on the right. It looks different than the other two, and my bracket will not fit. The other end seems about a quarter inch too tall and it simply won't go on.

And now I'm even more confused because Cal Pacific sells an oil cooler and claims it's compatible with Vanagons too: http://www.jbugs.com/product/021117021B.html
There are no appreciable differences between any Type 4 engine oil coolers.
Reeelaxxxxx.
Just make sure that you install whichever cooler correctly. NO spacer washers between cooler and case. Nice shouldered red/orange sealing rings. Wide washer, wavy washer, 10mm nut at each stud. 7 ft/lbs torque. Re-torque the next morning if the engine gets to sit for a while. Don't be freaked out by that oil leak at the cooler. It was likely a big stupid error on the part of your blind engine builder, poor soul.
Colin
(p.s you *make* the bracket fit. Loosen both screws, spread the bracket pieces, slip onto cooler, leave screws loose until the bracket has been bolted to the fan housing, then snug only modestly)
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .110,350 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,775 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . 72,350 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,478 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 64,425 miles

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Re: Juliet, my 1978 Westy

Post by russwiththebus » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:36 am

Thanks. Maybe it's just my paranoia then! I'll reattack tonight. I'm stopping at a local VW parts supplier this afternoon to see what kind of oil coolers and brackets he has. I tried every which way to fit the bracket onto the "new" one and it simply won't go.

Also, the "new" oil cooler itself won't install onto the case. The two holes to the left line up, but it binds on the third one at the right. It may be able to be forced on, but I didn't get a good feeling about it. Don't want to risk bending or breaking the stud.

I'll make sure the appropriate washers are in place and that it is torqued to spec.

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Re: Juliet, my 1978 Westy

Post by russwiththebus » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:55 pm

I just ordered a new oil cooler! We'll see what shows up and if it fits.
Amskeptic wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:26 am
NO spacer washers between cooler and case.
Check. Incidentally, the Haynes manual is incorrect on this point. It says "Do not forget the washers between the oil cooler and the crankcase". Yes, I know I should toss the Haynes in the trash. I'll check the Bentley tonight.
Amskeptic wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:26 am
Nice shouldered red/orange sealing rings.
Got some brand new ones. Do you recommend any kind of sealant with them, or just give them a little coating of oil first?
Amskeptic wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:26 am
Wide washer, wavy washer, 10mm nut at each stud. 7 ft/lbs torque.
I know the wide washers were on there, I don't recall any wavy washers with it. This seems important. Should I put some on there before the 10mm nuts?

I've watched the Bug Me Video vol. 8 on the Type 4 motor, and Jake only uses the wide washer but no wavy ones with it. Peculiar. Also, he says there's no real torque setting and just get them good and tight.

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Re: Juliet, my 1978 Westy

Post by tommu » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:02 pm

On a new engine build is the consensus that a new oil cooler should be used? If not any tips on how to test?

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Re: Juliet, my 1978 Westy

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:47 pm

tommu wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:02 pm
On a new engine build is the consensus that a new oil cooler should be used? If not any tips on how to test?
I have always preferred the original VW coolers. If the cooler has experienced a grenaded engine, then it is on probation until it has been thoroughly thoroughly cleaned. Off to the machine shop for a pressure test (80 psi) followed by a cold tank cleaning. Dunk it to half full in clean parts washer sauce, two, three, four times separated by compressed air spritzes. GumOut fill followed by a shake and drain onto a clean paper towel then check for ferrous particles. Do it again. Do it again. When the paper towel comes up clean, then you are good to go. Type 4 engines are more forgiving on account of their oil filters, but I happily reused Chloe's oil cooler even after evidence of some contamination that wrecked the crankshaft main journals. Thoroughness means cutting through your own distraction, schedule, lack of attention, ADHD, and making sure that you are good and sure that the thing is clean. Are you sure? Is that your final answer? Now fill it with engine oil and slosh it around and let it drip dry. Then plug the holes until assembly.

Russwiththebus, I use Permatex Aviation on the oil cooler seal shoulders. Do NOT ever use split washers when your washer supplier looks at you stupidly and asks, "is this what you are looking for?" Wavy washers are wavy washers. Good and tight is not a torque setting. 7 ft/lbs is.
ColinSanctimonyBecomesMe
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .110,350 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,775 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . 72,350 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,478 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 64,425 miles

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Re: Juliet, my 1978 Westy

Post by russwiththebus » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:46 pm

Heard. The oil cooler in question had, in fact, experienced a grenaded engine. Though he says he cleaned and tested it, I'm not ready to take it off probation yet. Hopefully the new one fits, and I can button it all back up tomorrow. I have a tube of Hylomar, would you regard that similar to Permatex Aviation? Some wavy washers will go on as well. Bentley says 5 ft/lbs, you think I should snug it a little bit more and go to 7? Thanks. With any luck, I'll be driving this weekend.

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Re: Juliet, my 1978 Westy

Post by russwiththebus » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:46 pm

Also, I examined the "new" oil cooler again and the top sleeve that the stud is supposed to go through is in there WAY crooked. Looks like it was just poorly made. I got a new one today, and it looks a bit better. I'll be installing it tonight.

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Re: Juliet, my 1978 Westy

Post by russwiththebus » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:08 am

Update time! I had originally wrote a longer post, but I accidentally closed the window. Anyways, the new oil cooler fit like a champ and I got it all back together. Last night, we put the engine in and fired it up. Immediately it started gushing oil again from the same spot. Damn!

But the oil cooler looked dry! It was coming from somewhere underneath. After lots of inspection, we saw a hairline crack in the oil filter flange. Luckily there was an extra in the parts bin, so we carefully removed the fan shroud to gain access.
IMG_2459.jpg
The problem should be obvious now that the part is out. That metal was so weak, it just snapped. With the new one fitted and everything buttoned back up, I'm happy to report no more leaks and a successful test drive.

This weekend I'll get it out for some more test drives but I'm pretty happy with how it runs so far. I'm glad to report some good news!
IMG_2460.jpg
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Re: Juliet, my 1978 Westy

Post by zabo » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:47 am

:cheers:
60 beetle
78 bus

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Re: Juliet, my 1978 Westy

Post by SlowLane » Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:09 pm

russwiththebus wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:08 am
After lots of inspection, we saw a hairline crack in the oil filter flange. Luckily there was an extra in the parts bin, so we carefully removed the fan shroud to gain access.

The problem should be obvious now that the part is out. That metal was so weak, it just snapped. With the new one fitted and everything buttoned back up, I'm happy to report no more leaks and a successful test drive.
Wow, that's a scary one. Wonder how it might be related to your original problem of having the oil filter drop off? Lucky you had a spare mount.
'81 Canadian Westfalia (2.0L, manual), now Californiated

"Wisdom comes from experience. Experience is often a result of lack of wisdom."
- Terry Pratchett

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Re: Juliet, my 1978 Westy

Post by russwiththebus » Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:51 pm

I mean...yeah that's interesting to think about, assuming the oil filter flange is the same as my old engine. I think it is, but not totally sure. I was trying to think of any way that this part could have gotten cracked like that. Perhaps it got torqued too tight on the install. I couldn't find a torque spec in the Bentley, but we got it good and snug with the seal and everything in there. Maybe I bumped it when I was trying to fit the bad oil cooler on or something. Who knows. I guess I can say I'm glad it happened now and not six months from now or something when I'm on a trip.

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Re: Juliet, my 1978 Westy

Post by russwiththebus » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:31 pm

Well I haven't been able to drive the bus home yet. Or anywhere really. She starts up instantly and sounds great at idle, but when you get down the road and try to put any kind of pedal down, it bogs down, starts back firing and losing power. It all sounds ignition timing related.

Since my distributor is in purgatory, I'm getting by with a borrowed dizzy from an old motor. It seems like the vacuum advance isn't working well. I've heard if you take it out and apply vacuum with your mouth on the side, the plate should move easily and then stay there when you keep your tongue on it. Well, this one doesn't move. Not very well at least. It took a lot of sucking to get it to barely move at all. It sounds like this is where my problem might be. So I might be in the market for a good distributor if you know of any.

It seems like I can also get a Flamethrower from Bus Depot brand new. Are these any good for a stock 2.0 bus?

Also, I haven't ruled out vacuum leaks either.

Good news is she's holding oil like a champ. No leaks whatsover!

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