Buildin my Thing engine thread

Beetle, Karmann Ghia, Thing.

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RSorak 71Westy
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It Runs!

Post by RSorak 71Westy » Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:28 pm

Latest post of the previous page:

Not that anyone seems to care, but I made it run today....Now I need to finish the breakin of the cam and drain the oil and fix a couple minor oil leaks. It runs fine and makes no bad sounds at all. The old stock Thing exhaust sure has a lot of rust in it though...
Take care,
Rick
Stock 1600 w/dual Solex 34's and header. mildly ported heads and EMPI elephant's feet. SVDA W/pertronix. 73 Thing has been sold. BTW I am a pro wrench have been fixing cars for living for over 30 yrs.

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Post by chitwnvw » Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:54 pm

I care. I've been searching my memory of bolting the gear to the cam...I don't think the orientation makes any difference.

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RSorak 71Westy
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Post by RSorak 71Westy » Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:13 pm

Yep 3 diff possible positions and only 1 is right.
Take care,
Rick
Stock 1600 w/dual Solex 34's and header. mildly ported heads and EMPI elephant's feet. SVDA W/pertronix. 73 Thing has been sold. BTW I am a pro wrench have been fixing cars for living for over 30 yrs.

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Post by Hippie » Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:54 am

=D>

I care too.
(Been a lurker, but don't have any answers to the questions.)

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Post by dtrumbo » Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:54 am

Hippie wrote:=D>

I care too.
(Been a lurker, but don't have any answers to the questions.)
Me too. I've been a "lurk and learn" kinda guy.

Way to go!
- Dick

1970 Transporter. 2015cc, dual Weber IDF 40's
1978 Riviera Camper. Bone stock GE 2.0L F.I.
1979 Super Beetle convertible.

... as it turns out, it was the coil!

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Post by chitwnvw » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:39 pm

RSorak 71Westy wrote:Yep 3 diff possible positions and only 1 is right.
Guess somehow I got it right...

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RSorak 71Westy
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Post by RSorak 71Westy » Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:58 pm

Got the cam broken in and the oil leaks stopped. It sounds like a real live VW engine! I need to replace the brake line going to the rear, (rusted hole) before I can actually drive it. I should have this done early tomm. And hopefully swapping out the carb for a fresh rebuilt one will stop the going too lean to idle once the choke comes off.....
Take care,
Rick
Stock 1600 w/dual Solex 34's and header. mildly ported heads and EMPI elephant's feet. SVDA W/pertronix. 73 Thing has been sold. BTW I am a pro wrench have been fixing cars for living for over 30 yrs.

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2 problems oil related

Post by RSorak 71Westy » Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:36 pm

Ok Now that this engine is running, I decided to install the oil pressure gauge. Good thing. Because it only shows about 2 PSI running at 2500.....It's a mechanical gauge with the plastic hose. The engine sounds fine. The oil pressure light kinda works....i/e/ it works as expected, except if you disconnect the wire from the sending unit while the engine is running, it DOES NOT make the light come on. Any ideas why?

As far as the lack of pressure, I've pulled the flywheel end oil piston. Removed the cap and spring, the plug wouldn't fall out. Cranked engine, not enough pressure at cranking speed to eject plug. Started it and plug came right out, while engine was idling oil steadily pumped out hole. Inspected hole, plug, and spring, found nothing weird and reinstalled them. The cap doesn't begin to exert pressure on the spring until it's about halfway screwed in, Is this correct? Or should my spring be longer? The oil system is a full flow. This was not my 1st full flow conversion. I've read online that filling the oil filter with oil on one of these is a bad idea....I did that but engine has run for probably an hour this way and seeing it pump oil out the piston hole, eliminated the possibility of an air problem in my mind. Any ideas? thanks for your time. Man this engine has been a battle. I thought I was near the end.
Take care,
Rick
Stock 1600 w/dual Solex 34's and header. mildly ported heads and EMPI elephant's feet. SVDA W/pertronix. 73 Thing has been sold. BTW I am a pro wrench have been fixing cars for living for over 30 yrs.

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Re: 2 problems oil related

Post by dtrumbo » Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:32 pm

RSorak 71Westy wrote:The oil pressure light kinda works....i/e/ it works as expected, except if you disconnect the wire from the sending unit while the engine is running, it DOES NOT make the light come on. Any ideas why?
The sending unit grounds the wire when there is no (very little) pressure. Just pulling the wire off does not ground it which is why your light doesn't come on. This is why it is important to verify that the light comes on with the key in the 'on' position prior to starting. That way you know that the wire hasn't fallen off the sending unit and that the bulb is still good.
- Dick

1970 Transporter. 2015cc, dual Weber IDF 40's
1978 Riviera Camper. Bone stock GE 2.0L F.I.
1979 Super Beetle convertible.

... as it turns out, it was the coil!

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RSorak 71Westy
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Post by RSorak 71Westy » Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:15 pm

You are absolutely right, grounding the disconnected wire makes the light come on.
Take care,
Rick
Stock 1600 w/dual Solex 34's and header. mildly ported heads and EMPI elephant's feet. SVDA W/pertronix. 73 Thing has been sold. BTW I am a pro wrench have been fixing cars for living for over 30 yrs.

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Post by Hippie » Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:02 am

I've been following this thread off and on here (and the pressure problem on TS), and this new oil pressure thing is racking my brain.

Seems like of there is any oil flow at all, most engines don't make a racket when not under load.
Other than the new gauge being bad or the plastic line squeezed shut at the compression fitting, there would almost have to be a bearing left out or something radical like that read 2 psi at idle with the oil you are using.

Is there a way to temporarily block the control valve oil drain to the sump from the outside to confirm it is not the problem Just for a brief start-up?

Please let us know the status?

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RSorak 71Westy
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Re: Buildin my Thing engine thread

Post by RSorak 71Westy » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:07 pm

After a 1.5 yr break, I've been looking at the lack of oil pressure problem again this week. At 1st I disconnected the oil lines from the engine and made sure the oil pump was actually pumping what seemed to be adequate volume and pressure and it passed those tests. So I pulled the engine in anticipation of having to split the case.

Once I got it on the engine stand the idea occurred to me to test it with air pressure. I pulled the pistons and cylinders on 1 side so I could see and hear inside the case for large air leaks. I hooked an air line up to the port where the full flow oiling goes back into the engine and applied air pressure. Oil started coming out the oil line from the output side of the oil pump!?! And there was no air leaking sounds coming from inside the case. This should not be possible as the the oil pump should only connect to the pickup. i.e. pressurized air/oil was leaking in the brand new oil pump.

So I get the 26 yr exp tech guy from CB performance on the phone and ask him about what I was seeing. He volunteers that oh BTW we've since changed the pump we use with that Maxi pump 5. (In hindsight I now wonder why they changed the pump, people reporting the exact same problem I'm having perchance???) He wanted me to check which pump I had. So I pull the pump cover and sure enough my pump does NOT block the port in the block, like the present pumps they use. My style pump depends on the cover plate to seal this passage. Well my cover plate wasn't sealing worth a crap apparently because the moment I sealed this passage with my finger air pressure went into the case like it was supposed to.

So I call CB tech guy back and report what I found. And say that I'm fairly sure that if plug the case everything will be fine. He says go ahead, but doesn't think it'll fix it, as plugging the case with this pump is NOT required. So I plug the case and put air pressure to it and the air goes into the case and builds good pressure. No oil at all out the oil pump output port. I'm now absolutely positive it's fixed and am putting the engine back together, and am going to put it back in the Thing tomorrow.

My question concerns my treatment from CB Perf. I think when they discovered they were selling defective pumps, they should have contacted the people they sent them to. This would have saved me lots frustration and time. Secondly I'm only lucky that I decided to put an actual oil pressure gauge on this engine, as if I hadn't, CB's error would have cost me the engine. When I call this arrogant tech guy back after I actually get the engine installed and confirm it's fixed, What Should I ask or demand of CB??? I think they owe me something for my hassle and frustration......After all they did sell me a brand new full flow oil pump setup that failed to produce more than 2 psi? Should I threaten to post my bad experience in every VW forum I can find?
Take care,
Rick
Stock 1600 w/dual Solex 34's and header. mildly ported heads and EMPI elephant's feet. SVDA W/pertronix. 73 Thing has been sold. BTW I am a pro wrench have been fixing cars for living for over 30 yrs.

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Amskeptic
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Re: Buildin my Thing engine thread

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:25 am

RSorak 71Westy wrote: He says go ahead, but doesn't think it'll fix it, as plugging the case with this pump is NOT required.

snipped my gruesomely florid response.
Colin, holding on a sec . . .
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 91 414 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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RSorak 71Westy
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Re: Buildin my Thing engine thread

Post by RSorak 71Westy » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:03 pm

Well damn it, good I waited to bitch to CB till after I got it back in and tested. Still no damn oil pressure. Guess I get to pull it back out and split the case and see what I can find.
Take care,
Rick
Stock 1600 w/dual Solex 34's and header. mildly ported heads and EMPI elephant's feet. SVDA W/pertronix. 73 Thing has been sold. BTW I am a pro wrench have been fixing cars for living for over 30 yrs.

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Re: Buildin my Thing engine thread

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:29 pm

RSorak 71Westy wrote:Well damn it, good I waited to bitch to CB till after I got it back in and tested. Still no damn oil pressure. Guess I get to pull it back out and split the case and see what I can find.
Whoa. I have to swallow that whole post above. Let's hang on a minute.

You have *no* oil pressure at what rpm? Pump is turning, yes? Pick-up pipe is sealed to case no cavitation?
Your sender /gauge is verifiable?

With a full-flow circuit, how do you crank for pressure? Do you have a stock sender as well as the gauge sender? External oil cooler or no external cooler?

Remember your bearing clearance readings?
Colin ? ? ?
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 91 414 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,113 miles

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RSorak 71Westy
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Re: Buildin my Thing engine thread

Post by RSorak 71Westy » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:12 pm

The oil at idle just barely flows outta the plastic oil gauge tubing. At 2000 RPM it flows pretty good but I can stop the flow by holding my finger over the end of the tube, this equals little to no pressure. Yes 2 senders. Yes pump is turning. Stock oil cooler only this is a 71 style dual port.

I cannot confirm that oil pickup is sealed this is one of the things I plan to check when splitting case. Bearings were all new, but nothing was measured. Engine is quiet. No knocking sounds.
Take care,
Rick
Stock 1600 w/dual Solex 34's and header. mildly ported heads and EMPI elephant's feet. SVDA W/pertronix. 73 Thing has been sold. BTW I am a pro wrench have been fixing cars for living for over 30 yrs.

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