Now I've done it

Beetle, Karmann Ghia, Thing.

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DurocShark
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Re: Now I've done it

Post by DurocShark » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:35 pm

Swapped the SuperTrapp for a Thrush Turbo muffler.

https://youtu.be/Gu_DPJCO36Q

Way quieter, but doesn't sound as nice to my ears. Sigh. I need the quiet more. :(

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DurocShark
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Re: Now I've done it

Post by DurocShark » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:14 am

So much orange snot... :(

Leaking oil out of the valve covers, oil pump (or rear main), pushrod tubes (maybe), and cylinders:

https://youtu.be/x0u21kCL_Gg

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DurocShark
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Re: Now I've done it

Post by DurocShark » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:28 pm

I went and looked again. There's oil smears radiating out from under the crank pulley nut. I think that really points at the rear main seal and explains the oil splatters around the rear of the engine. Still possibly the oil pump (and I'm still going to replace the gaskets on that) but the rear main feels like a more likely candidate.

I have a new gasket set coming so I'll be able to replace that stuff. The leaks from under 3 of the 4 cylinders that you can see in the video are going to be more trouble. I'll have to pull the heads. I have new push rod tubes coming too so when I do that I'll be ready.

Also because of the tight space between the TriMill header and the crank pulley, I ordered a 1 1/8" ratcheting wrench. The only crescent wrench I have that's big enough is a piece of crap and keeps loosening while using. Drove me batty when doing the valve adjustment. All of them were tight. The PO told me that you don't adjust the ball adjusters to .006, just tight enough to wiggle. I found that odd and don't believe it unless he had put hydraulic lifters in, and he said they were solid.

So the plan is to track down a P&C set and heads for the "1835" short block I just picked up from Fat Performance. I have a stock doghouse cooler, and stock head tin that I can put on it, along with a Zenith NDIX on a centermount manifold. That carb may or may not be worth anything to me, but I'll check it out. It's an awfully big carb for a street 1835... Then I'll drop the 2180 out of the Baja and see if I can get rid of all that snot.

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DurocShark
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Re: Now I've done it

Post by DurocShark » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:47 pm

I pulled the pulley bolt out. Jesus. Just look:

Image

Image

Sigh.

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Amskeptic
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Re: Now I've done it

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:41 am

DurocShark wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:28 pm
There's oil smears radiating out from under the crank pulley nut. I think that really points at the rear main seal and explains the oil splatters around the rear of the engine.
leaks from under 3 of the 4 cylinders

Garden variety Type 1 engines do not have a rear main seal, just a slinger and a threaded pulley.
After market pulleys on a non-sealed case rarely pull off this brilliant little oil control:

Image


.

The other oil leak boo-boo that escapes many is that there is rudimentary positive crankcase ventilation via that little weight bob on the factory air cleaners (visible on the right side of the intake snorkel here on Chloe. This thing makes the engine suck in crankcase vapors from the breather on the oil fill pipe before it gets to have nice fresh intake air:

Image


All Type 1 engines will let you know that the rings and valve guides are getting worn by blowing oil out from the rear of the crankshaft.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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DurocShark
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Re: Now I've done it

Post by DurocShark » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:26 am

Amskeptic wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:41 am

Garden variety Type 1 engines do not have a rear main seal, just a slinger and a threaded pulley.
After market pulleys on a non-sealed case rarely pull off this brilliant little oil control:

/snip

All Type 1 engines will let you know that the rings and valve guides are getting worn by blowing oil out from the rear of the crankshaft.
Colin
Seriously no seal? Ugh. That explains the existence of the "sand seal". I'd always wondered...

After properly adjusting the valves the engine is much smoother and quieter. Go figure. ;) Took some nice long freeway runs yesterday and it ran strong. That stupid mount on the trans makes it *REALLY* loud in the car though. lol

If I can find some cheap enough heads, I'll start building that 1835.

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Re: Now I've done it

Post by asiab3 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:23 am

Regarding the valve adjustments: if the engine has chromoly pushrods, then the valve adjustment setting of "loose zero" will be correct. Most builders set their chromoly pushrod valve adjustments between loose zero and .002". Testing the push rods involves poking the shaft with a magnet (not the tip) and seeing if the pushrod is ferrous (steel/chromoly) or not (stock, aluminum.) Unfortunately it usually means taking the rocker arms off again unless you have a skinny magnet on a stick.

Good luck, see you on the roads around Southern California some time?
Robbie
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145k miles with me.
322k miles on Earth.

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DurocShark
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Re: Now I've done it

Post by DurocShark » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:33 am

Forgive my ignorance, but why would chromoly pushrods change the gap?

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Re: Now I've done it

Post by DurocShark » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:40 am

OK, I just went and read up. The CM rods don't expand like the aluminum rods. However, there doesn't seem to be consensus on how loose the lash should be. VW owners are all talking way smaller gaps, but there's no discussion of similar changes to valve lash in the Lycoming articles I found when changing to and from aluminum to steel to chromoly. Granted, aircraft mechanics have to be more conservative, but I find it interesting.

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Re: Now I've done it

Post by tristessa » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:53 pm

I was never brave enough to set my 1776 to zero lash with the CrMo pushrods, but ran 0.002" for years without issue...
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Re: Now I've done it

Post by DurocShark » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:11 pm

As leaky as this engine is, I think I'll leave them at 006 for a while. Don't want to introduce any more issues...

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Re: Now I've done it

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:11 pm

asiab3 wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:23 am
Testing the push rods involves poking the shaft with a magnet (not the tip) and seeing if the pushrod is ferrous (steel/chromoly) or not (stock, aluminum.)
Testing the push rods involves looking at them and seeing if they have a soft grey aluminum surface with a hardened tip insert that pesters magnets anyhow.


Chrome moly is supposed to limit the expansion of the valve train through the push rod area so that they never get ahead of the rest of the engine's expansion. Aluminum expands pretty rapidly. Chrome moly allows you to have "0" clearance when cold, then the rest of the engine heating up actually pulls the valve train away from the valves/camshaft.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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DurocShark
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Re: Now I've done it

Post by DurocShark » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:28 pm

So the reason for the .006" lash is during warm up when the rods have expanded before the rest of the engine? Then the gap opens up again as the rest of the engine expands? Or does the aluminum expand not only faster but more?

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Re: Now I've done it

Post by Amskeptic » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:16 pm

DurocShark wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:28 pm
So the reason for the .006" lash is during warm up when the rods have expanded before the rest of the engine? Then the gap opens up again as the rest of the engine expands? Or does the aluminum expand not only faster but more?
You asked for it, here it comes.

A) Aluminum is lighter and VW wanted lighter (plus, they could put on high quality hardened tips which steel push rods at the time did not have)

B) NOW the engineers have to figure out what happens to the dimensions as the engine warms up

C) The first expansion occurs within about two to five minutes. It is the ceiling of the combustion chambers and it pushes the rocker supports away from the valves, clearances increase.

D) Shortly thereafter, the exhaust valves are expanding at a good clip and this eats up the clearance opened above.

E) Then the slower dimensional changes settle in, as the cylinder heads warm more thoroughly, the rocker supports are less pushed up, but the seat to support dimension grows, which eats clearance. But the cylinder barrels are slowly growing bigger, so the clearances can open. Fortunately, the push rods have by then expanded sufficiently to keep up. But hills heat the valves a lot, so there better be sufficient expansion room.

On top of all of this, the engineers knew that long term dimensional changes can occur, such as head-to-barrel and barrel-to-case pounding that eats clearances as the heads slowly move closer to the camshaft.

This is science. Fortunately, I have first-hand experience with chrome moly pushrods, and have not run across any particularly noticeable risks over the long term. I have NO opinion as to them being "better" than factory aluminum.
But, if you have them, do NOT set the valves to .006" You will hammer the valve stems and screws and keepers to death.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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DurocShark
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Re: Now I've done it

Post by DurocShark » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:34 pm

Thanks Colin, exactly what I was hoping for. :)

Last week I confirmed the presence of the chromoly pushrods and readjusted the valves to loose zero. The engine is quiet (aside from an exhaust leak that I'll deal with when I put the 1835 in) until it warms up. Then it starts clacking. Sigh. Not horrible, of course, but very noticeable to me.

Besides being an idiot and connecting the remote oil filter lines backwards, it's a strong car. Too strong. The clutch can't handle the torque of that 2180. lol I'm guessing they used the stock clutch. hehehe

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