Awesome. And no surprise, with help from the Community Environmental Legal Defense Fund (CELDF). Randy the town passed their ordinance based on the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the State of Maine (specifically 1969's Home Rule Amendment). Overturned in a heartbeat, but contestable to higher courts. Could be sticky. A growing movement I've been trying to explain in the "Corporate Personhood" thread. Community based rights initiatives.
neal
Again, Raw food raid
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ruckman101
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Re: Again, Raw food raid
The slipper has no teeth.
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hippiewannabe
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Re: Again, Raw food raid
Science and reason are what separates us from the lower animals. Pasteurization is just common sense, kill the germs that can kill us, with a debatable loss of taste as the only downside; let the informed make their own choices. Routine use of antibiotics is what should be outlawed; increased yields for the mega-farms at the cost of resistant bacteria that will render useless what is probably the greatest gift medicine has given mankind.
Truth is like poetry.
And most people fucking hate poetry.
And most people fucking hate poetry.
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Bleyseng
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Re: Again, Raw food raid
I had lots of raw milk in my chai tea in India. I got sick twice from it but lived to tell the tale and enjoyed India and all their freakin cows everywhere.dingo wrote:Im having some raw milk with my coffee this morning...i must be a moron and an idiot...heres to Darwin Salut !
I am afraid of raw milk in the USA though with all the new fangled "production" methods and crap in milk I don't drink it and stick to rice milk.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
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77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
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Randy in Maine
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Re: Again, Raw food raid
Maine Judge Sides with State in Raw Milk Sales Dispute
05/01/2013 Reported By: Susan Sharon
A Hancock County Superior Court judge has sided with the Maine Department of Agriculture in a dispute with a Blue Hill farmer who sells raw milk. Dan Brown had argued that he was not required to have a license for selling vegetables and unpasteurized milk products, in part because he was protected or exempted by a local ordinance. The court disagreed and has issued an injunction against Brown, which could have implications for other food producers. Susan Sharon has more.
Related Media
Maine Judge Sides with State in Raw Milk Sales
It all came to a head two years ago when an inspector from the Maine Department of Agriculture encountered farmer Dan Brown selling produce and unpasteurized milk. The inspector advised Brown that the sale of milk and milk products requires a license.
But Brown continued his practice without getting one. And so, in August of 2011, the department sent Brown a letter demanding that he get a license, and offering to expedite the process for him. Despite repeated warnings, Brown acknowledges that he continued to sell milk from his farm stand and at local farmers' markets.
"It just doesn't make sense to become a milk distributor for milking one, two cows," he says.
The state maintains that because Brown sells milk to the public he falls within the definition of "milk distributor" and is required to obtain a license under the law. Brown says prior to 2011, he was advised by the Agriculture Department that he didn't need a license as long as he was a small farmer who sold raw milk from a farm stand at his house.
But then there was a change in administration, and Brown says the rules also changed. "We know now through the FOIA requests we did and stuff that the feds came in and told them to crack down on this raw milk sales or they were going to lose their funding for the meat inspection program," he says.
Brown thought he would get a boost when the town of Blue Hill passed an ordinance that exempted local food producers selling directly to consumers from inspection and licensing requirements. But in her decision and order, Hancock County Superior Court Judge Ann Murray said nothing in the Blue Hill ordinance clearly states that the town intended to include milk within the definition of "local food."
In addition, the judge ruled that even if the ordinance were to include milk products, it would essentially be circumventing state law. She declined to permit Brown to take shelter under what's known as "Home Rule" of the Maine Constitution, which permits local municipalities to enact regulations under certain circumstances.
And she issued an injunction to prevent Brown from selling milk without a license, selling unpastueurized milk without labeling it as such and operating a food establishment without a license.
"We thought that the evidence was in his favor, certainly," says Gary Cox, Dan Brown's attorney. Cox had not yet read the order but says he is disappointed in the result, especially as it relates to Home Rule.
"She's not reading the case law the way I read the case law," Cox says. "The Supreme Court of Maine has clearly said there has to be an express prohibition stated in the law prohibiting municipalities from regulating in an area."
At least half a dozen Maine towns have passed ordinances similar to Blue Hill's. And for the Maine Department of Agriculture, the decision is a victory in what's been largely regarded as a "food sovereignty" test case.
A dairy farmer himself, Agriculture Commissioner Walt Whitcomb says the safety of Brown's products has been a concern. "The samples that we took from his product was very, very unhealthy," Whitcomb says. "Part of his argument was that that was a mistaken sample or something, but that seems to be the case."
Whitcomb says it's not his department's intent to put Dan Brown out of business. Brown says it's too soon to say whether he'll appeal the decision, but he still doesn't think getting a milk distributor's license is an option for him. The judge has scheduled a meeting with the parties to address civil penalties later this month.
05/01/2013 Reported By: Susan Sharon
A Hancock County Superior Court judge has sided with the Maine Department of Agriculture in a dispute with a Blue Hill farmer who sells raw milk. Dan Brown had argued that he was not required to have a license for selling vegetables and unpasteurized milk products, in part because he was protected or exempted by a local ordinance. The court disagreed and has issued an injunction against Brown, which could have implications for other food producers. Susan Sharon has more.
Related Media
Maine Judge Sides with State in Raw Milk Sales
It all came to a head two years ago when an inspector from the Maine Department of Agriculture encountered farmer Dan Brown selling produce and unpasteurized milk. The inspector advised Brown that the sale of milk and milk products requires a license.
But Brown continued his practice without getting one. And so, in August of 2011, the department sent Brown a letter demanding that he get a license, and offering to expedite the process for him. Despite repeated warnings, Brown acknowledges that he continued to sell milk from his farm stand and at local farmers' markets.
"It just doesn't make sense to become a milk distributor for milking one, two cows," he says.
The state maintains that because Brown sells milk to the public he falls within the definition of "milk distributor" and is required to obtain a license under the law. Brown says prior to 2011, he was advised by the Agriculture Department that he didn't need a license as long as he was a small farmer who sold raw milk from a farm stand at his house.
But then there was a change in administration, and Brown says the rules also changed. "We know now through the FOIA requests we did and stuff that the feds came in and told them to crack down on this raw milk sales or they were going to lose their funding for the meat inspection program," he says.
Brown thought he would get a boost when the town of Blue Hill passed an ordinance that exempted local food producers selling directly to consumers from inspection and licensing requirements. But in her decision and order, Hancock County Superior Court Judge Ann Murray said nothing in the Blue Hill ordinance clearly states that the town intended to include milk within the definition of "local food."
In addition, the judge ruled that even if the ordinance were to include milk products, it would essentially be circumventing state law. She declined to permit Brown to take shelter under what's known as "Home Rule" of the Maine Constitution, which permits local municipalities to enact regulations under certain circumstances.
And she issued an injunction to prevent Brown from selling milk without a license, selling unpastueurized milk without labeling it as such and operating a food establishment without a license.
"We thought that the evidence was in his favor, certainly," says Gary Cox, Dan Brown's attorney. Cox had not yet read the order but says he is disappointed in the result, especially as it relates to Home Rule.
"She's not reading the case law the way I read the case law," Cox says. "The Supreme Court of Maine has clearly said there has to be an express prohibition stated in the law prohibiting municipalities from regulating in an area."
At least half a dozen Maine towns have passed ordinances similar to Blue Hill's. And for the Maine Department of Agriculture, the decision is a victory in what's been largely regarded as a "food sovereignty" test case.
A dairy farmer himself, Agriculture Commissioner Walt Whitcomb says the safety of Brown's products has been a concern. "The samples that we took from his product was very, very unhealthy," Whitcomb says. "Part of his argument was that that was a mistaken sample or something, but that seems to be the case."
Whitcomb says it's not his department's intent to put Dan Brown out of business. Brown says it's too soon to say whether he'll appeal the decision, but he still doesn't think getting a milk distributor's license is an option for him. The judge has scheduled a meeting with the parties to address civil penalties later this month.
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ruckman101
- Lord God King Bwana
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Randy in Maine
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Re: Again, Raw food raid
State statute is pretty clear that the state will prevail even in an appeal of the court ruling and will not allow an unlicensed guy to sell unsafe food to anyone.
It was an interesting approach using the "home rule" concept as justification for the action, but alas it will not prevail.
Always interesting when someone uses the Declaration of Independance as the legal theory or justification of a law or local ordinance and in the appeal process.
It was an interesting approach using the "home rule" concept as justification for the action, but alas it will not prevail.
Always interesting when someone uses the Declaration of Independance as the legal theory or justification of a law or local ordinance and in the appeal process.
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ruckman101
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Re: Again, Raw food raid
Usually these Community Rights ordinances are based on state constitutions. And generally the ordinances are established out of environmental concerns, language that can effectively ban undesirable things like a new WalMart, fracking, clear cut timber harvesting, spreading city sewer sludge on farmlands, stopping corporate farm models, like a 25,000 head pig farm. The issue of raw milk is a bit of an anomaly compared to other ordinances. Although, it does seem restrictive to treat a two-cow operation the same as a corporate dairy farm operation with thousands and thousands of milk cows.
neal
neal
The slipper has no teeth.
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Randy in Maine
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Re: Again, Raw food raid
However the driving force here is that protecting public safety is paramount.
Plus the fact that local ordinances can not be less protective of public health than state law.
However I am am not convinced that fracking, building a Walmart, or sewage sludge is harmful to public health PROVIDED that it is done according to accepted rules adopted by the state. At least this state (that I have been in the regulatory framework for more than 20 years). I actually understand the rule making process.
Plus the fact that local ordinances can not be less protective of public health than state law.
However I am am not convinced that fracking, building a Walmart, or sewage sludge is harmful to public health PROVIDED that it is done according to accepted rules adopted by the state. At least this state (that I have been in the regulatory framework for more than 20 years). I actually understand the rule making process.
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Amskeptic
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Re: Again, Raw food raid
Randy in Maine wrote:However the driving force here is that protecting public safety is paramount.
Plus the fact that local ordinances can not be less protective of public health than state law.
However I am am not convinced that fracking, building a Walmart, or sewage sludge is harmful to public health PROVIDED that it is done according to accepted rules adopted by the state. At least this state (that I have been in the regulatory framework for more than 20 years). I actually understand the rule making process.
I want back-up on the below statement. What was unhealthy about the samples? I don't want "very very unhealthy" as a descriptor. WHAT was unhealthy? And if it was, sorry Mr. Local Farmer, you flunked.
Colin
A dairy farmer himself, Agriculture Commissioner Walt Whitcomb says the safety of Brown's products has been a concern. "The samples that we took from his product was very, very unhealthy," Whitcomb says. "Part of his argument was that that was a mistaken sample or something, but that seems to be the case."
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
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Randy in Maine
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Re: Again, Raw food raid
They have not released the counts for pathogens and bacteria in the samples taken that I have found through a quick search fromt he Bangor Daily News (BDN).
I did find this from 2011 though....
As director of the Division of Quality Assurance and Regulations at the Maine Department of Agriculture, I feel compelled to respond to “Maine Agriculture Department wields a heavy hand,” a Nov. 29 BDN OpEd column.
Our department has a legal obligation to enforce various health and safety laws. The goal of these laws is to protect public health, enhance food safety and quality and promote confidence in the food supply for consumers.
The sale of raw milk is legal in the state of Maine, but there are some basic safety and sanitation requirements that must be followed in order to obtain and maintain a license to sell raw milk. Contrary to the opinion stated by some, a personal relationship and warm feelings toward the vendor is not a reliable indicator of cleanliness, nor does it impart anti-bacterial properties.
Pathogens of the type that can make people extremely sick and in some instances result in
death cannot be seen or smelled. If a food smells bad that is spoilage, nature’s way of saying this food is past its prime. Bacteria and other pathogens such as E. coli, salmonella, Clostridium botulinum (b otulism), Campylobacter and hepatitis do not play by any such rules.
Contrary to information being conveyed by Mr. Brown and his supporters, he was repeatedly informed of his responsibility to be licensed and inspected in accordance with Maine law. On multiple occasions he refused offers of support from our department to assist him with licensure and safety inspection steps, including water and TB testing.
As a last resort, and in strict compliance with federal guidelines for the taking of samples and transportation procedures, the department purchased Mr. Brown’s raw milk on July 26, 2011. Samples taken from his used, dented and unlabeled plastic fruit juice containers revealed
bacterial counts showing contamination levels 10 to 15 times greater than allowed by law.
We believe the products sold by Mr. Brown pose a significant health risk to consumers. Regulation of the sale of these products through state licensing and inspection is important because it allows for the traceback of any contaminated product. Mr. Brown, or others who wish to engage in the sale of raw milk and other products, need to make a minimum investment in sanitary equipment and facilities to protect their customers’ health.
The Department of Agriculture approaches our regulatory role as a partnership with Maine businesses and we offer our resources, whenever possible, to help improve their processing techniques. Department staff, including the state veterinarian, work extensively with the University of Maine Cooperative Extension to provide assistance to food processors and farmers.
In fact, over the years, hundreds of dairy farmers and processors have benefited from the
assistance of department personnel in helping them with start-up issues and in troubleshooting quality problems. There are many success stories in Maine of small cottage food producers who started in the home kitchen and grew to nationally recognized brands.
A little science and a lot of hot water go a long way toward food safety. The Maine Department of Agriculture’s statutory responsibility to protect health enhances the marketing efforts and success of 1,200 small home food processors, artisan cheese makers and raw milk sellers who participate in Maine’s license and support programs.
Hal Prince is director of the Division of Quality Assurance and Regulations at the Maine Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Resources.
I did find this from 2011 though....
As director of the Division of Quality Assurance and Regulations at the Maine Department of Agriculture, I feel compelled to respond to “Maine Agriculture Department wields a heavy hand,” a Nov. 29 BDN OpEd column.
Our department has a legal obligation to enforce various health and safety laws. The goal of these laws is to protect public health, enhance food safety and quality and promote confidence in the food supply for consumers.
The sale of raw milk is legal in the state of Maine, but there are some basic safety and sanitation requirements that must be followed in order to obtain and maintain a license to sell raw milk. Contrary to the opinion stated by some, a personal relationship and warm feelings toward the vendor is not a reliable indicator of cleanliness, nor does it impart anti-bacterial properties.
Pathogens of the type that can make people extremely sick and in some instances result in
death cannot be seen or smelled. If a food smells bad that is spoilage, nature’s way of saying this food is past its prime. Bacteria and other pathogens such as E. coli, salmonella, Clostridium botulinum (b otulism), Campylobacter and hepatitis do not play by any such rules.
Contrary to information being conveyed by Mr. Brown and his supporters, he was repeatedly informed of his responsibility to be licensed and inspected in accordance with Maine law. On multiple occasions he refused offers of support from our department to assist him with licensure and safety inspection steps, including water and TB testing.
As a last resort, and in strict compliance with federal guidelines for the taking of samples and transportation procedures, the department purchased Mr. Brown’s raw milk on July 26, 2011. Samples taken from his used, dented and unlabeled plastic fruit juice containers revealed
bacterial counts showing contamination levels 10 to 15 times greater than allowed by law.
We believe the products sold by Mr. Brown pose a significant health risk to consumers. Regulation of the sale of these products through state licensing and inspection is important because it allows for the traceback of any contaminated product. Mr. Brown, or others who wish to engage in the sale of raw milk and other products, need to make a minimum investment in sanitary equipment and facilities to protect their customers’ health.
The Department of Agriculture approaches our regulatory role as a partnership with Maine businesses and we offer our resources, whenever possible, to help improve their processing techniques. Department staff, including the state veterinarian, work extensively with the University of Maine Cooperative Extension to provide assistance to food processors and farmers.
In fact, over the years, hundreds of dairy farmers and processors have benefited from the
assistance of department personnel in helping them with start-up issues and in troubleshooting quality problems. There are many success stories in Maine of small cottage food producers who started in the home kitchen and grew to nationally recognized brands.
A little science and a lot of hot water go a long way toward food safety. The Maine Department of Agriculture’s statutory responsibility to protect health enhances the marketing efforts and success of 1,200 small home food processors, artisan cheese makers and raw milk sellers who participate in Maine’s license and support programs.
Hal Prince is director of the Division of Quality Assurance and Regulations at the Maine Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Resources.
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Amskeptic
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Re: Again, Raw food raid
Bingo.Randy in Maine wrote:They have not released the counts for pathogens and bacteria in the samples taken that I have found through a quick search fromt he Bangor Daily News (BDN).
I did find this from 2011 though....
Samples taken from his used, dented and unlabeled plastic fruit juice containers revealed bacterial counts showing contamination levels 10 to 15 times greater than allowed by law.
We believe the products sold by Mr. Brown pose a significant health risk to consumers.
I am a Regulate It kind of guy.
Sorry.
I have arrived here after visiting people's homes over the past two decades and coming to understand intimately, deeply, first-hand, that people's definitions of "clean" are all over the map.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
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Velokid1
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Re: Again, Raw food raid
Ew!
Our homes have been clean, right? Don't tell me I'm the guy whose house smells like dog piss and bacon grease and I don't even realize it.
Our homes have been clean, right? Don't tell me I'm the guy whose house smells like dog piss and bacon grease and I don't even realize it.
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Amskeptic
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Re: Again, Raw food raid
Naw, I am talking about . . . soul-crushing ruin.Velokid1 wrote:Ew!
Our homes have been clean, right? Don't tell me I'm the guy whose house smells like dog piss and bacon grease and I don't even realize it.
"You want a glass of water?" being the agonizingly friendly voice of Death Himself.
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles
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Bleyseng
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Re: Again, Raw food raid
Ain't that the Truth! I am with Colin on this...(god, that's twice I have agreed with him this year. What's wrong with me?)Amskeptic wrote:Bingo.Randy in Maine wrote:They have not released the counts for pathogens and bacteria in the samples taken that I have found through a quick search fromt he Bangor Daily News (BDN).
I did find this from 2011 though....
Samples taken from his used, dented and unlabeled plastic fruit juice containers revealed bacterial counts showing contamination levels 10 to 15 times greater than allowed by law.
We believe the products sold by Mr. Brown pose a significant health risk to consumers.
I am a Regulate It kind of guy.
Sorry.
I have arrived here after visiting people's homes over the past two decades and coming to understand intimately, deeply, first-hand, that people's definitions of "clean" are all over the map.
Colin
My dad had a Antique shop for 45 years and I worked with him for many a years growing up as he started the Estate Sale business here. I have been in some amazing homes to see how people live and think what the word "Clean" means. The worst was a high school health teacher who lived with 30 cats and ate cat food with them...yes, shit all over the place and we refused to do the estate sale.
Geoff
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
77 Sage Green Westy- CS 2.0L-160,000 miles
70 Ghia vert, black, stock 1600SP,- 139,000 miles,
76 914 2.1L-Nepal Orange- 160,000+ miles
http://bleysengaway.blogspot.com/
-
Randy in Maine
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Re: Again, Raw food raid
Well the Maine Supreme Court made a decison today and Dan Brown did not prevail. Sort of an intersting read if you like that kind of thing.
http://www.courts.maine.gov/opinions_or ... me79br.pdf
http://www.courts.maine.gov/opinions_or ... me79br.pdf
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