Again, Raw food raid

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Velokid1
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Re: Again, Raw food raid

Post by Velokid1 » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:28 pm

Ah yes, that must have been it. A development in juice pasteurization requirements in 1996 surely prompted the store to stop selling raw milk in 2010. Definitely. Fact. Thank you for your detective work.

And those Rawesome guys ARE scum! Let's hate them. :thumbright:

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Re: Again, Raw food raid

Post by steve74baywin » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:59 pm

Lanval wrote: The Rawsome guys are scum; they wrap themselves in the flag of righteousness when in fact they're nothing more than people who think they're above the rules.

Mike
I can only imagine what some would have thought of the founding fathers and the colonist, how dare they not abide by every single law out there. MLK and those bad evil blacks that did civil disobedience. Scum, scum, scum scum, if you don't get down on your knees and gladly accept what is put in your mouth, you are scum. Bow down to the great US master, praise be to the congress, the senate, and all those who rule over the peasantry. How dare those silly raw food guys think of themselves as humans in a free country. What a bunch of idiots. We all know we live in the country with the highest percentage of people in prison. Maybe I have been looking at things the wrong way.

Now for something more serious.
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Re: Again, Raw food raid

Post by Lanval » Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:07 pm

Velokid1 wrote:Ah yes, that must have been it. A development in juice pasteurization requirements in 1996 surely prompted the store to stop selling raw milk in 2010. Definitely. Fact. Thank you for your detective work.

And those Rawesome guys ARE scum! Let's hate them. :thumbright:

Oh, you know sarcasm; congratulations. My point was that there has been a move towards closer regulation of raw/unpasteurized products since the Odwalla incident. If you had bothered, you certainly could have gone and found the information yourself, no? I offered a suggestion as to a larger context for the experience you mention.

If you don't like what I write, why respond to it? Your response serves what purpose here? Your answer speaks volumes about you, but nothing about me.

Mike

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Re: Again, Raw food raid

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:14 pm

steve74baywin wrote: I can only imagine what some would have thought of the founding fathers and the colonist, how dare they not abide by every single law out there. MLK and those bad evil blacks that did civil disobedience. Scum, scum, scum scum, if you don't get down on your knees and gladly accept what is put in your mouth, you are scum. Bow down to the great US master, praise be to the congress, the senate, and all those who rule over the peasantry.
Let's dry the discussion out a bit. This is veering towards tasteless.
Colin
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Re: Again, Raw food raid

Post by steve74baywin » Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:18 pm

Amskeptic wrote:
steve74baywin wrote: I can only imagine what some would have thought of the founding fathers and the colonist, how dare they not abide by every single law out there. MLK and those bad evil blacks that did civil disobedience. Scum, scum, scum scum, if you don't get down on your knees and gladly accept what is put in your mouth, you are scum. Bow down to the great US master, praise be to the congress, the senate, and all those who rule over the peasantry.
Let's dry the discussion out a bit. This is veering towards tasteless.
Colin
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Re: Again, Raw food raid

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:25 pm

steve74baywin wrote:
Amskeptic wrote:
steve74baywin wrote: I can only imagine what some would have thought of the founding fathers and the colonist, how dare they not abide by every single law out there. MLK and those bad evil blacks that did civil disobedience. Scum, scum, scum scum, if you don't get down on your knees and gladly accept what is put in your mouth, you are scum. Bow down to the great US master, praise be to the congress, the senate, and all those who rule over the peasantry.
Let's dry the discussion out a bit. This is veering towards tasteless.
Colin
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Re: Again, Raw food raid

Post by BellePlaine » Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:59 am

Velokid1 wrote:A factoid that belongs in this thread is this: the current FDA food safety czar is a former Monsanto chief lobbyist and VP. The wolves are guarding the henhouse.
I'm sorry that I only have time for a quick fly-by. I ran across this article and thought to share it here.
Whether or not you think unpasteurized milk is a good idea, it's clear that the FDA under Michael Taylor has its priorities wrong. When industrial agribusiness sickens thousands of people, it's absurd for the FDA to target Amish farmers producing fresh milk, much less to engage in "guns drawn" enforcement raids
http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/fir ... =fb_share1
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Velokid1
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Re: Again, Raw food raid

Post by Velokid1 » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:28 am

Lanval wrote: Oh, you know sarcasm; congratulations. My point was that there has been a move towards closer regulation of raw/unpasteurized products since the Odwalla incident. If you had bothered, you certainly could have gone and found the information yourself, no? I offered a suggestion as to a larger context for the experience you mention.

If you don't like what I write, why respond to it? Your response serves what purpose here? Your answer speaks volumes about you, but nothing about me.

Mike
Hey now. You don't like anything I write and yet you've been addressing my posts for a couple weeks now, most often being insulting and offensive. You know how to hurt feelings; congratulations. LOL

Our store made their own choice last year to stop carrying raw milk. I seriously doubt it was in direct response to The Odwalla Incident from 15 years ago. In my opinion, your post wasn't meant to enlighten the discussion but to provoke. Your use of over-the-top insults like "they're scum" is evidence of that.

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Re: Again, Raw food raid

Post by ruckman101 » Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:33 am

This occurred to me last night, that deaths, sickness etc from tainted food products have always happened. But take a look at the percentages and sources. What percentage of those statistics come from raw food? What percentage of those are from corporate model food distribution sources, and what percentage from the local produce stands/coops? Scale alone would point to massive distribution systems and production facilities. An outbreak has the potential of sickening millions all across the nation vs. dozens locally.

Then there are the cases of individuals improperly preparing and handling food stuffs.

Rawsome was operating under what they felt were legitimate loopholes in law and regulations. Authorities disagreed. Why are those laws and regulations on the books? Largely in response to irresponsible practices and issues that have come up because of the corporate scale food production models, not the Amish or Rawsome. And yet the problem seems to only be increasing.

I would go for the raw milk before I would open a can of Denison's chile. Always wash your produce.


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static
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Re: Again, Raw food raid

Post by static » Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:48 am

ruckman101 wrote:
I would go for the raw milk before I would open a can of Denison's chile.
Do milk and chili go well together? I must try that sometime.

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Re: Again, Raw food raid

Post by ruckman101 » Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:44 am

To put some numbers into context, would of course take a look at percentages of production numbers that have caused illnesses. Three billion cans of Denison chili, three hundred gallons of raw milk.

I prefer raw, unpasteurized beer.


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Re: Again, Raw food raid

Post by ruckman101 » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:15 am

Oh dear. Cantaloupe deaths.

http://news.yahoo.com/cantaloupe-warnin ... 43372.html

Might be the distribution system?



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Randy in Maine
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Re: Again, Raw food raid

Post by Randy in Maine » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:48 am

While I am loathe to bring back this dead topic,

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162- ... -fall-ill/
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Re: Again, Raw food raid

Post by Lanval » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:21 pm

Randy in Maine wrote:While I am loathe to bring back this dead topic,

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162- ... -fall-ill/
Randy,

It wouldn't be a problem if people would recognize that generally speaking, the science on this has been good. The link you gave has another link to the FDA's ideas about milk. I've added a relevant bit here:

"Raw Milk & Pasteurization: Debunking Milk Myths
While pasteurization has helped provide safe, nutrient-rich milk and cheese for over 120 years, some people continue to believe that pasteurization harms milk and that raw milk is a safe healthier alternative.
Here are some common myths and proven facts about milk and pasteurization:
Pasteurizing milk DOES NOT cause lactose intolerance and allergic reations. Both raw milk and pasteurized milk can cause allergic reactions in people sensitive to milk proteins.
Raw milk DOES NOT kill dangerous pathogens by itself.
Pasteurization DOES NOT reduce milk's nutritional value.
Pasteurization DOES NOT mean that it is safe to leave milk out of the refrigerator for extended time, particularly after it has been opened.
Pasteurization DOES kill harmful bacteria.
Pasteurization DOES save lives."
~ from the FDA website (http://www.fda.gov/Food/ResourcesForYou ... 079516.htm)

I suspect someday we will discover that pasteurizing has some drawbacks as well, and we'll refine the process to eliminate bad/dangerous bacteria, while allowing other good/helpful bacteria to remain. For now, I drink my milk like science intended; or sometimes. Truth be told, I hate milk so I drink other stuff. Iced tea is my new favorite.

Michael L

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Re: Again, Raw food raid

Post by ruckman101 » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:26 pm

Should I bring up the questionable substances that have entered the corporate food model of production and distribution? Whatever it is they pump into milk cows to increase their production of milk? Antibiotics and such? I would point my finger there when it comes to lactose intolerance issues, and again back to the antiseptic products marketed to the home environment rendering us vulnerable to bacteria when we encounter it.


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