BT - Monsanto

[glasseye]

Peter your post reminded me of the initial song from Hair. I guess I'm having a silly day.
LBJ IRT
USA LSD
J

Heh.

I read an ad the other day for a 1080P 65" 3D LED LCD HDTV. Kinda makes you wonder how people who haven't kept up can decipher this gibberish.

In any case, IHMO, GMO BAD.

P

[ruckman101]

When terminator seed cross pollinates with all our heirloom seed, Monsanto will control the entire world's food supply. Who ya gonna call?

I'm not sure there is a middle ground with Monsanto. A vital part of corporate run agriculture, which, indeed, feeds millions nutritionally lacking, taste-bud challenged, petro-chemical fertilized lower yield per acre food when compared to organic agriculture products.

And if the organic veggies are grown locally, less transportation costs.


neal

[Amskeptic]

Y'alls minds are made up on this one, which is a shame.
IMHO: Yes, Monsanto is quite evil. However, BT is not.
This is actually a step in the right direction.

Stop! You don't *know* that!

Who is y'all anyway? Not RandyInMaine. What is your argument? IMHO four-word sentences does not inform us of your position. What is the "this" that is a step in the right direction?
Bacillus thuringiensis is not quite evil?
I don't think anyone here has actually conflated it to that moral certitude level. I read that bacillus thuringiensis explodes insect stomachs, that is as far as I am taking it. I don't think these bacteria *know* that blowing up insect stomachs is "bad" they just do what they do. They are not responsible for their behavior.
Evil might be more ascribable to humans who damage other humans knowingly.
My mind is not "made up" I don't even know what to make of this information, but really, answer the question "do we know the effects of genetically-engineered intrinsic-pesticide food on our organisms?" Do we?
ColinJuryIsOutStepRightUp

[Randy in Maine]

Here is my take on it...

We (all 7 billion of us) are living on a plant that can really only really support about half that population. Much like dring a bus at 84 mph, we are pushing our planet at 100% of full throttle with no cool down periods on the off ramps and we have been driving that way for an extended period of time now.

Our world keeps changing through both natural and man made changes that interfere with our ability to feed, clothe, educate, and nourish our population should any even small changes in the normal cycle occur. Whether you believe in global warming or not, it really doesn't matter. The climate cycles this planet has gone through, even in the last 10,000 years is absolutely amazing. Ice to water to heat to cold from drought to rain. Even in the last 500 years, we have seen dramatic climatic changes that not only redrew all of the polititical boundaries in existance, but changed the very food we eat today and the way we all live. It really doesn't matter if you look at the Anasazis to to the desertification of the Sahara to the Little Ice age to the Dust Bowl years in the US. Everything always changes and nothing always stays the same is the only constant out there.

While Bt is a natural occuring little critter that is a natural way of pest control for plants, we have figured out how to insert the ability to make it into the genetic material of the food we grow and eat. In our minds this "saves us" from using even worst pesticides to ward off the bugs and herbicides to ward off the weeds to allow us to keep production levels to the max to feed and clothe the 7 billion of us.

How do you prove that something poses no harm is difficult to do, no matter what you are trying to prove. How much risk is too much risk? What about involuntary risk that you do not choose to take on? What about other risks that make up the total risk to the body? Can you ever get away from all risk? Those are all questions that need to get asked as you determine, "is it safe?" Here is another question that should be asked, "what happens if we don't do it?" People starve even at 100% of max food prduction, so anything less than that through pests, weeds, drought, floods, land out of production for any reason, distribution, vermin, war.....increase hunger to someone.

Hungry people are angry people. Angry people will do about anything and everything to keep themselves and their families fed. It has been that way since the dawn of human kind and will continue to be that way. It is the just way we are.

Just my 2¢

[steve74baywin]

Here is my take on it...

We (all 7 billion of us) are living on a plant that can really only really support about half that population.

In our minds this "saves us" from using even worst pesticides to ward off the bugs and herbicides to ward off the weeds to allow us to keep production levels to the max to feed and clothe the 7 billion of us.

How much risk is too much risk? What about involuntary risk that you do not choose to take on? What about other risks that make up the total risk to the body? Can you ever get away from all risk? Those are all questions that need to get asked as you determine, "is it safe?" Here is another question that should be asked, "what happens if we don't do it?" People starve

Just my 2¢

What you posted is sound rational thought.
What I find is the usual questions, for me anyways, coming up.
Whose greater goal, mission and dream are we striving for once again? Who are the Master Controllers?
In other words, what you state makes sense but to me anyways, it assumes we have some larger group that is in the position to manage, and there decision then obviously has to be made based upon the agenda, the final outcome, dream or vision.
This is what I don't agree with. Instead of a person deciding, and suffering the consequences of their action, some greater authority does, and whoever gets poisoned, sick or dies, oh well, just shrapnel from the shotgun shot to get us to point X.
Someone is playing god.

[Amskeptic]

Here is my take on it...

We (all 7 billion of us) are living on a plant that can really only really support about half that population.

In our minds this "saves us" from using even worst pesticides to ward off the bugs and herbicides to ward off the weeds to allow us to keep production levels to the max to feed and clothe the 7 billion of us.

How much risk is too much risk? What about involuntary risk that you do not choose to take on? What about other risks that make up the total risk to the body? Can you ever get away from all risk? Those are all questions that need to get asked as you determine, "is it safe?" Here is another question that should be asked, "what happens if we don't do it?" People starve

Just my 2¢

What you posted is sound rational thought.
What I find is the usual questions, for me anyways, coming up.
Whose greater goal, mission and dream are we striving for once again? Who are the Master Controllers?
In other words, what you state makes sense but to me anyways, it assumes we have some larger group that is in the position to manage, and there decision then obviously has to be made based upon the agenda, the final outcome, dream or vision.
This is what I don't agree with. Instead of a person deciding, and suffering the consequences of their action, some greater authority does, and whoever gets poisoned, sick or dies, oh well, just shrapnel from the shotgun shot to get us to point X.
Someone is playing god.

You remind me of Classical Physicists like Sir Isaac Newton. He needed to know who was the boss. The damn Universe had to have balance and RULES.
But Heisenberg discovered that randomness is actually at the root of the matter that that follows the Newtonian rules. The thought of electrons with free will utterly messed with their minds. The shift from Classical Physics to Uncertainty Principles rocked their world.

Fuck Greater Authority, it exists only in the minds of those weenies who need to think it. I see no master nothing, but I do see pretenders.
Breathe, it is a beautiful day out here in Random Humanity.
Colin

[Ritter]

Momma Earth is fixin the smackdown (assisted by unprecedented co2 liberation by homo sapien) that will knock our collective dicks in the dirt. It is my opinion the gm foods need to get on board with fision if we expect it to save us (read: unlikely). Overshoot is a fucking bitch. Only occluded by climate change.

[ruckman101]

Momma Earth is fixin the smackdown (assisted by unprecedented co2 liberation by homo sapien) that will knock our collective dicks in the dirt. It is my opinion the gm foods need to get on board with fision if we expect it to save us (read: unlikely). Overshoot is a fucking bitch. Only occluded by climate change.

Mighty strong words. Emotionally backed. The gm foods needing to get on board with fision lost me.


neal

[Ritter]

Mighty strong words. Emotionally backed. The gm foods needing to get on board with fision lost me.

Just meaning that if'n we're looking at 4-6* temp increases, GM foods saving agriculture is almost as likely as fission. It's hard to get plants to grow in a desert. Even genetically modified ones.

[ruckman101]

Mighty strong words. Emotionally backed. The gm foods needing to get on board with fision lost me.

Just meaning that if'n we're looking at 4-6* temp increases, GM foods saving agriculture is almost as likely as fission. It's hard to get plants to grow in a desert. Even genetically modified ones.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. And I think you are right.


neal

[Lanval]

Mighty strong words. Emotionally backed. The gm foods needing to get on board with fision lost me.

Just meaning that if'n we're looking at 4-6* temp increases, GM foods saving agriculture is almost as likely as fission. It's hard to get plants to grow in a desert. Even genetically modified ones.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. And I think you are right.


neal

This is one of the problems I have with the Global Warming discussion. To hear people talk about it, things are going to be bad all over; they aren't. Some areas which are now fertile won't be. Some which aren't, will be. I'll laugh (sardonically) if changing rain patterns make the Middle East the world's breadbasket. Or Africa. In any case, food won't disappear. What'll happen is as temps change, patterns of climate, and by extension, rainfall, change, patterns of food growth and consumption will too.

No one now can predict how things will change, but warmer generally will mean northern grains move north... Canada and Russia in the Northern hemisphere. Who knows, maybe we'll be able to grow rice here in So Cal!

Mike

[vdubyah73]

The truth is frequently somewhere in the middle has been my experience.

Gold.

you learn that one raising kids.

[vdubyah73]

Y'alls minds are made up on this one, which is a shame.
IMHO: Yes, Monsanto is quite evil. However, BT is not.
This is actually a step in the right direction.

Stop! You don't *know* that!

Who is y'all anyway?

Must be that core group again?

[Amskeptic]

ho is y'all anyway?

Must be that core group again?

Y'all is nutz

[Velokid1]

No matter how you feel about all of this, don't base any portion of your decision on the trustworthiness of the FDA.