Bin Laden Dead

[Lanval]

Humans, humans, humans, it just goes to show we have mostly humans here posting.
I see many things here. We have a person or two that is probably just trying to keep a discussion going. Oddly some jump in and think he is mucking the whole thing up, but the discussion kinda ended, but he is trying to keep it going. I see this on several threads.
Discussions seem to be a bit lacking. As usual there are probably different reason for different people as to why they don't post. Maybe some of the trivial arguments backing long time political ideologies finally seem silly. Maybe many are just dumb founded with the world in general. You ought to be if you got some thinking still going on in that brain.
I realize all people are at different levels and stages and unless a person has come across certain info in their life they aren't going to be as far a long as some.
But most of the people who have been engaged in discussions like on here in the past few years must have some major, major doubts about the system we've believed we have, I can not imagine anyone seriously standing behind either Dems or Repubs, or just about anyone even close to being elected. That has to have weighed in on people and given them a general disgust and distaste for discussing things political anymore.
Then there are the few who don't really join in, they just add the same un-thought about repeated propaganda from the news, this adds even more disgust to an already sad state of affairs.
The fun is let out of the bottle once one realizes they have to go to the LIE part of the doublethink in order to hold discussions about the popular world events.

Why do tinfoil hat types arrogate to themselves the position of superior intellect and vision? Why is it that everyone who doesn't share your (vastly minority) belief is a sheep ~ do you have some divine insight...? If so, then share. Otherwise, stick to the facts and stop operating as if you alone share the knowledge of how the black box works.

Your debate isn't political in any meaningful sense because:

A. You assume you are right and the rest of us are blind
B. No matter what information/evidence you're presented with, you shove it aside in favor of your (unverifiable) superior knowledge

Jesus; even die-hard enemies like the Federalists and Jeffersonian Democrats understood shared perspective and compromise were the foundations of democracy. So long as you treat everyone who doesn't share your point of view as so much garbage, you are the problem, NOT the solution.

My main problem with Turk isn't his set of beliefs, but his unwillingness to even approximate rational discussion of them. If you're going to shout others down, don't be surprised that they don't like it; but I wouldn't go around throwing aspersions their way either.

L.

[turk]

Man, don't lord it over the community. You have no Phd. Your arguments aren't very good, and you're snotty and arrogant. Remember "I won the bet", but you couldn't produce the evidence. If you could you wouldn't be wasting time on this board. You'd be world famous for producing the smoking gun that caused global warming. DOH!

[steve74baywin]

Humans, humans, humans, it just goes to show we have mostly humans here posting.
I see many things here. We have a person or two that is probably just trying to keep a discussion going. Oddly some jump in and think he is mucking the whole thing up, but the discussion kinda ended, but he is trying to keep it going. I see this on several threads.
Discussions seem to be a bit lacking. As usual there are probably different reason for different people as to why they don't post. Maybe some of the trivial arguments backing long time political ideologies finally seem silly. Maybe many are just dumb founded with the world in general. You ought to be if you got some thinking still going on in that brain.
I realize all people are at different levels and stages and unless a person has come across certain info in their life they aren't going to be as far a long as some.
But most of the people who have been engaged in discussions like on here in the past few years must have some major, major doubts about the system we've believed we have, I can not imagine anyone seriously standing behind either Dems or Repubs, or just about anyone even close to being elected. That has to have weighed in on people and given them a general disgust and distaste for discussing things political anymore.
Then there are the few who don't really join in, they just add the same un-thought about repeated propaganda from the news, this adds even more disgust to an already sad state of affairs.
The fun is let out of the bottle once one realizes they have to go to the LIE part of the doublethink in order to hold discussions about the popular world events.

Why do tinfoil hat types arrogate to themselves the position of superior intellect and vision? Why is it that everyone who doesn't share your (vastly minority) belief is a sheep ~ do you have some divine insight...? If so, then share. Otherwise, stick to the facts and stop operating as if you alone share the knowledge of how the black box works.

Your debate isn't political in any meaningful sense because:

A. You assume you are right and the rest of us are blind
B. No matter what information/evidence you're presented with, you shove it aside in favor of your (unverifiable) superior knowledge

Jesus; even die-hard enemies like the Federalists and Jeffersonian Democrats understood shared perspective and compromise were the foundations of democracy. So long as you treat everyone who doesn't share your point of view as so much garbage, you are the problem, NOT the solution.

My main problem with Turk isn't his set of beliefs, but his unwillingness to even approximate rational discussion of them. If you're going to shout others down, don't be surprised that they don't like it; but I wouldn't go around throwing aspersions their way either.

L.

Wow, I was going to mention one other thing to my last post, and that was all the attacks lately, what is going on, I guess that was part of the reason I posted in the first place.
Lanval, I did not expect you to take it that way. In fact I didn't really think anyone would be upset by my post. But I did not anticipate you to take it as directed at you.
I hated to see one other person get discourage on here, I replied after seeing Russel's post.

If you would like though, I will answer as much of your questions about Tinfoil hat types as you want.
Let me know

[Lanval]

You have no Phd. Your arguments aren't very good

1. A Ph.D isn't a book of secrets you get at the end of an initiation. Your attention to my not having a Ph.D. is nothing more than you casting aspersions at the objects of your desire.

2. As if you'd know

L.

****************

BTW, I would report you to the Mod for pointless name-calling, but, well... you know. A Mod with no sense of order or logic isn't a mod, he is a tyrant. Don't go to Virginia, I guess.

L.

[Lanval]

Humans, humans, humans, it just goes to show we have mostly humans here posting.
I see many things here. We have a person or two that is probably just trying to keep a discussion going. Oddly some jump in and think he is mucking the whole thing up, but the discussion kinda ended, but he is trying to keep it going. I see this on several threads.
Discussions seem to be a bit lacking. As usual there are probably different reason for different people as to why they don't post. Maybe some of the trivial arguments backing long time political ideologies finally seem silly. Maybe many are just dumb founded with the world in general. You ought to be if you got some thinking still going on in that brain.
I realize all people are at different levels and stages and unless a person has come across certain info in their life they aren't going to be as far a long as some.
But most of the people who have been engaged in discussions like on here in the past few years must have some major, major doubts about the system we've believed we have, I can not imagine anyone seriously standing behind either Dems or Repubs, or just about anyone even close to being elected. That has to have weighed in on people and given them a general disgust and distaste for discussing things political anymore.
Then there are the few who don't really join in, they just add the same un-thought about repeated propaganda from the news, this adds even more disgust to an already sad state of affairs.
The fun is let out of the bottle once one realizes they have to go to the LIE part of the doublethink in order to hold discussions about the popular world events.

Why do tinfoil hat types arrogate to themselves the position of superior intellect and vision? Why is it that everyone who doesn't share your (vastly minority) belief is a sheep ~ do you have some divine insight...? If so, then share. Otherwise, stick to the facts and stop operating as if you alone share the knowledge of how the black box works.

Your debate isn't political in any meaningful sense because:

A. You assume you are right and the rest of us are blind
B. No matter what information/evidence you're presented with, you shove it aside in favor of your (unverifiable) superior knowledge

Jesus; even die-hard enemies like the Federalists and Jeffersonian Democrats understood shared perspective and compromise were the foundations of democracy. So long as you treat everyone who doesn't share your point of view as so much garbage, you are the problem, NOT the solution.

My main problem with Turk isn't his set of beliefs, but his unwillingness to even approximate rational discussion of them. If you're going to shout others down, don't be surprised that they don't like it; but I wouldn't go around throwing aspersions their way either.

L.

Wow, I was going to mention one other thing to my last post, and that was all the attacks lately, what is going on, I guess that was part of the reason I posted in the first place.
Lanval, I did not expect you to take it that way. In fact I didn't really think anyone would be upset by my post. But I did not anticipate you to take it as directed at you.
I hated to see one other person get discourage on here, I replied after seeing Russel's post.

If you would like though, I will answer as much of your questions about Tinfoil hat types as you want.
Let me know

Steve,

When you say this: "I realize all people are at different levels and stages and unless a person has come across certain info in their life they aren't going to be as far a long as some"

What you appear to mean is: "I look from a point further along the line, back at all those who struggle to my level of understanding."

It's impossible, really, to not read it that way, which is the source of my post. You're one of US; you may or may not have any real understanding of what's going on. Without a sense of uncertainty, your statements can sound both profound, and dismissive because they seem to imply a higher level of knowledge. There's always someone smarter than you (and many smarter than me, I might add) so my response is really to the appearance of an insight which others lack. That seems somewhat insulting to the others on this board (and I have real respect for a number of thinkers here, whatever their political views) and bit of an attack.

Writing is notoriously difficult to decipher, and people more often than not misread intention or emotion in email/posts. I try hard enough to make myself clear, but that doesn't mean I misread others. If you were trying reconcile and engage others, my apologies. But from the way some of your comments are phrased, it was difficult for me to see that. If that's so ~ my apologies.

Best,

L.

[steve74baywin]

Steve,

When you say this: "I realize all people are at different levels and stages and unless a person has come across certain info in their life they aren't going to be as far a long as some"
What you appear to mean is: "I look from a point further along the line, back at all those who struggle to my level of understanding."

It's impossible, really, to not read it that way, which is the source of my post. You're one of US; you may or may not have any real understanding of what's going on. Without a sense of uncertainty, your statements can sound both profound, and dismissive because they seem to imply a higher level of knowledge. There's always someone smarter than you (and many smarter than me, I might add) so my response is really to the appearance of an insight which others lack. That seems somewhat insulting to the others on this board (and I have real respect for a number of thinkers here, whatever their political views) and bit of an attack.

Writing is notoriously difficult to decipher, and people more often than not misread intention or emotion in email/posts. I try hard enough to make myself clear, but that doesn't mean I misread others. If you were trying reconcile and engage others, my apologies. But from the way some of your comments are phrased, it was difficult for me to see that. If that's so ~ my apologies.

Best,

L.

I understand. Deciphering and misreading the typed word here is very hard. When I type I have that in mind, but still haven't mastered it.

Yes, I was actually posting to help with this trend I see on here, 1)there sometimes is a lack of debate, and 2) people keep getting pissed at each other...Hence why I started with "Humans, humans" to which I am one also. Because this stuff just reminded me of what happens when you have a bunch of humans together. There are tons of different things going on that cause all this, it is too hard to know them all and list the ones I do know. Later in my post is where I go with just a few of the many reasons. I was speaking in general and not at anyone in particular.

As to my comment "I realize all people are at different levels and stages and unless a person has come across certain info in their life they aren't going to be as far a long as some"
That is a truth is it not? What else can I say? I am nothing special, I was born and raised here in the US like most. I spent most of my time looking into political things and conditioning for the past 6 years, and I have had more free time than the typical 40hr worker, and that is when my views changed. What else would you expect from someone? Two people just drive cars for 20 years, then one of those two makes VW aircooled repair his interest for 8 years. When he explains what is wrong and how to fix it what is he doing and how come he is doing it? He came across info, because it was his interest, and he is sharing what he believes with confidence.
Most people probably haven't spent the time on this stuff like me.
I share some info in the repair section of this forum, but I am fully aware that "some people are at different levels and stages and unless a person has come across certain info in their life they aren't going to be as far a long as some" it is just a fact, in many, many areas I take a back seat and let those who have really been into something have at it, and I can learn. Another thing to think about, I spent so much time on this stuff that many times I have already hashed out discussions with people to their end conclusion before, when it gets brought up here it is not the first time, but I am willing to go through it again and see what new angle comes up.
That is all I am doing, something I spent tons of my free time looking into, I am sharing what I believe with confidence. I am always willing to discuss. From my end of the world it looks more like others aren't willing to discuss things with me.

I do realize this post might only make things worse.

[glasseye]

This conversation sucks.
Colin

does suck.

Actually....this board has started to suck. I'm done here. If all we seem capable of are cryptic replies, fabricated discussions and three word declarations I see no more value in spending time here. What started as a nice experience almost five years ago has been allowed to erode to this point. What a shame.

Noooo! Don't go.... Who's gonna correct my various/egregious errors of fact about stuff? Who's gonna stand up to the noise?

It is sucking, though. Ever since the "ignore" button disappeared.

What we need is a return to the halcyon days of Calvin, the dog and the Martin guitar. Last time I saw them, they were marooned at Laredo.

[Cindy]

I agree, Russell. You would be missed. I've managed to keep my distance without ditching it. You might be able to do the same.

Cindy

[airkooledchris]

It is sucking, though. Ever since the "ignore" button disappeared.

that would be a welcomed feature again and help prevent an exodus. generally speaking most here only take offense to maybe 0.5% of the users posting and participating would be easier to stomach overall... as it's all too easy to come to a thread thinking "i have an idea to share on that" - only to be discouraged.

I know most wouldn't bother to say anything about it, preferring to just ignore the free speech section completely, but it's such a simple solution that it would be silly to just 'ignore' the option.

[steve74baywin]

Is it really that hard to just ignore a post you don't like?
I do not use the ignore button for several reasons, I've never been so convinced that any person might not have something that might be of benifit to me.
Using the ignore button seems rude to me, and perhaps arrogant.

[glasseye]

Is it really that hard to just ignore a post you don't like?
Using the ignore button seems rude to me, and perhaps arrogant.

Yes, it is hard to ignore a post you don't like. By the time you realize you don't like it, you've read it.

It's neither arrogant nor rude. It's sensible and effective.

[steve74baywin]

Is it really that hard to just ignore a post you don't like?
Using the ignore button seems rude to me, and perhaps arrogant.

Yes, it is hard to ignore a post you don't like. By the time you realize you don't like it, you've read it.

It's neither arrogant nor rude. It's sensible and effective.

And once you read it? What happens? I guess this is a difference or a point I didn't take into account. I see tons of things I don't like, but I have to control my reaction to it. It is up to me to not allow it to change or effect me.
Just move on.
And I still wouldn't want block out every and anything they might ever say because I am making a decision that everything they may say will be of no use ever again. Arrogance

I am one of those people that don't let the looks of my neighbors house ruin my day. I don't care if they keep it up or they don't, it doesn't effect me.

[airkooledchris]

And I still wouldn't want block out every and anything they might ever say because I am making a decision that everything they may say will be of no use ever again. Arrogance

What's the harm in having the choice?
Does knowing that one has potentially been blocked by some make posting less interesting for everyone, or just to the person that was ignored?

[turk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVkdfJ9P ... r_embedded

[glasseye]

And once you read it? What happens?

You die inside.

And I still wouldn't want block out every and anything they might ever say because I am making a decision that everything they may say will be of no use ever again. Arrogance.

Not arrogance, experience.