Consumer economy you say

[ruckman101]

You asked who the elite were, I'm was only striving to answer your question. They are the same now as then.

And I'll pass on the Fever clip, Grease, Urban Cowboy, and Xanadu, too. Scientologists creep me out.


neal

[turk]

What, again? The organization is very secretive. Professor Cronan outing it's connections to Scott Walker brought the ire of the Wisconsin Republican party to bear on him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_L ... ge_Council

ALEC is responsible for the raft of attack legislation on this country in order to silence all voices but those of corporations. The propaganda bit is fully utilized to manufacture/engineer consent. The co-opted tea party is their voice.


neal

The edited version of the first post I responded to. I'm not that much of an idiot. I agree I'm an idiot but not that much. The post I responded to is " What again?". So, the newly edited post, I have to go work on now. Anyhow, let's see what you linked to, rather than actually said yourself.

[turk]

You asked who the elite were, I'm was only striving to answer your question. They are the same now as then.

And I'll pass on the Fever clip, Grease, Urban Cowboy, and Xanadu, too.


neal

No. Those films don't compare. And here I thought you were a film guy.

[ruckman101]

Badham's body of work has never impressed me.


neal

[turk]

GOOD. I don't know his body of work except the one, which I think must be a masterpiece, all things considered. How about Rocky Horror Picture Show? No connection else a diamond in the rough. I don't consider it great. But it is great culturally.

[turk]

So, I think the question I "axed" -sarc/ is yet unanswered. Who are the elite behind the "consumer culture conspiracy"? ruck101 says ALEC, (excuse me if I am putting words in his mouth). The same people who instigated the consumer culture apparently. The elite, I suppose. Would these people be connected to the Robber Barons of the Gilded Age? Is it just the last of the Robber Barons, or the last legal obstacles to a socialistic government? If the latter, I would like to hear how America is expected to be the beacon of liberty it has been for 200 years. Answer that question before the former ones. We can work backwards from that.

[ruckman101]

Watch the documentary.


neal

[turk]

OK. Give me some time to watch it. Remembering that most of us know the basic, agreed upon facts of the 20th century, and Freud. Sounds like a deal.

[steve74baywin]

I have most of part four still to watch. I should finish it after I get done posting.
As much stuff as I have watched other vids, there is still new stuff here. I didn't know what this vid would cover when I first found it. I was looking for something on Barnays in response to something on another forum to do with a different hobby of mine.
In part two or three they talk about Marylin Monroe. An obvious error in one friend of Anna Freuds became apparent to me.

[turk]

One of the first of several tip-offs I got that Obama is an incompetent figurehead was the first thing he focussed on as president. Let me remind people of that and how it was sold to a laid back consumer culture: The Reinvestment and Recovery Act of 2009 was supposed to be about infrastructure and jobs and strengthening the middle class. It was supposed to be transparent and was going to save or create 3 million jobs. I predicted then it would instead be a slush-fund for political favors. Well, here we are about two years later, and my guess is you will be hearing about another stimulus package from Obama and Soros very soon. It won't be as big as the first one, for obvious reasons. Most people get it that's not what creates jobs or improves an economy. Well, a lot of people are under that illusion. I think Paul Krugman is one of the swine at the trough who "believes" that.

[ruckman101]

Infrastructure projects don't build themselves.


neal

[turk]

The 787,000,000,000 $ stimulus can't be realistically accounted for in much significant infrastructure building in the past two years, except some top-coating of roads (with asphalt). One of the oldest, most earmarked cosmetic "jobs" in the book. And job creation has been meager to nil. It's been more of a waste of money than anything. Infrastructure spending isn't new. It's been going on before Obama. Most of the stimulus went to public sector unions, and as bailouts to broke states, which will be broke again next year if they aren't already. That and cockamamie wind farms that most public utilities don't want. It will prove more of a drag on the economy. Prices will go up - have you noticed that yet. The economy will continue to tank. Worse than before. Or, on the other hand, maybe you have some anecdotes of people doing better now than before the stimulus. I doubt that. But I guess the reasoning is: it would have been worse. Blah. Catch a falling knife three feet before impact. Okay.

[ruckman101]

Seems pretty well accounted for to me.

Only $272 billion of the $787 billion has been spent. Of that, less than $27.5 billion has gone to highways. Didn't see unions on the list, or wind farms specifically. Less than $59 billion to states, 82% of which must be used for education.

Maybe you could point out the union and wind farm allocations. I didn't see them.

http://www.propublica.org/special/the-s ... f-spending

I'm not sure what your sources of information are, but they don't seem very well informed. Maybe that's the point, to intentionally misinform.



neal

[Lanval]

The 787,000,000,000 $ stimulus can't be realistically accounted for in much significant infrastructure building in the past two years, except some top-coating of roads (with asphalt). One of the oldest, most earmarked cosmetic "jobs" in the book. And job creation has been meager to nil. It's been more of a waste of money than anything. Infrastructure spending isn't new. It's been going on before Obama. Most of the stimulus went to public sector unions, and as bailouts to broke states, which will be broke again next year if they aren't already. That and cockamamie wind farms that most public utilities don't want. It will prove more of a drag on the economy. Prices will go up - have you noticed that yet. The economy will continue to tank. Worse than before. Or, on the other hand, maybe you have some anecdotes of people doing better now than before the stimulus. I doubt that. But I guess the reasoning is: it would have been worse. Blah. Catch a falling knife three feet before impact. Okay.

Anecdotal information is not proof, and is rejected as such by science generally.

Do you have a citation ~ someplace which verifies your claims? Or are you just saying whatever you feel ~ as in you 'feel' like the stimulus shouldn't work, since you don't like Obama?

Phrases like "cockamamie wind farms" are calculated to inflame, not to educate. What's "cockamamie" about them? Do you know the Chinese are investing in those types of energy? Are all 1 billion of them dumber than you?

I see a good deal of rhetoric here, but of evidence? Not a shred.

L.

[turk]

If we take the first sentence of Wikipedia's explanation (click for link) it was intended to create jobs and promote investment and consumer spending during the recession. Realistically, little effect can be realized in a couple years, granted. Did we hear about "shovel - ready projects" in the beginning? Yes. And that jibes with the Wikipedia first sentence. Did we also hear about a second stimulus targeting infrastructure almost a year after the above first? Yes. So, either the advertising was bad on the first one or it wasn't planned as well as we heard. I hear about wind farms and it's mostly bad news. Do you know of any under construction or being added to any utility grids operating at a profit? I don't. So, tell me where the "disinformation" really is. A newly elected president said "I have a trillion dollars, and I'm going to spend it on, ( see above reasoning ^^ )". Well, who'd of thunk the plan would be a little short on reasons, but long on feel-good politics. So, like I said, watch for the formula repeated again now, perhaps with some disinformation thrown in. And watch the economy go in a tailspin, due to a lack of stimulus ( see above reason ) in the interim. Just my opinion.