Republican Scorched Earth Policies

[turk]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124804047828063059.html
I don't know if this is the same chief. It's not an isolated thing. PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS ARE POWERHOUSES IN American politics. It's endemic. It's a pandemic.

[RussellK]

You know that Walker almost caved when he made numerous concessions to his proposal, except the one giving union teachers the option of not paying the mandatory dues each month, and not being in the monopoly the unions represent in Wisconsin; and the dems (I mean union peps) declined that deal, right before the the 'pubs figured out how to pass it without the 14 awol reps? That is something you will only find in one sentence, buried paragraphs into in AP reports. Yet, that is the key to this whole debate.

Turk I don't know how well schooled you are in the business of union busting but what Walker proposed is classic union busting. Its that right to work strategy that every business salivates over having in their state. Why? Because its the most effective way there is to showing the union the door. Split the rank and file. It's so damned transparent its funny. That's why anything he claims to be trying to do with balancing a budget is suspect. Why did he wrap the budget issue up with this non budget issue. Because in the end it really isn't about the budget. Its about busting the union.

[turk]

Reagan busted the air-traffic controllers union in 1982. It didn't mean they weren't able to to work with the FAA under a new union 5 years later. I don't know the ins and outs but the general economy prospered under Reagan, and into the nineties. You can point to disparities of income but everyone got "richer" over time. Everyone is better off now than before Reagan got elected. There was more poverty and misery index before him. I saw it personally. Anyway, another topic. I would love to discuss that myth. But, I believe there is a budget problem and it does relate to public sector union privileges granted by states. I'm not the only one who thinks this. It's pandemic.

[RussellK]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124804047828063059.html
I don't know if this is the same chief. It's not an isolated thing. PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS ARE POWERHOUSES IN American politics. It's endemic. It's a pandemic.

Where in that article do you see unions responsible for his increase? Are you certain he was even in a union? My neighbor was the City Counselor. He got the same kind of deal when he left his post. I guarantee you he was not in any union. You want to fight this sort of abuse? That's fine. That's admirable But before you go throwing punches maybe it would be prudent to learn who the real targets ought to be. Like the spineless politicos that are responsible for the giveaways and now are trying to convince the public it wasn't their fault.

[ruckman101]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124804047828063059.html
I don't know if this is the same chief. It's not an isolated thing. PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS ARE POWERHOUSES IN American politics. It's endemic. It's a pandemic.

Public sector unions, and unions in general, are the only organizations to even come close to politcal donations of a level that could be compared to corporate interests. Even then, the $ figures pale compared to the "$" free speech wielded by corporations, especially after the Citizens United Supreme Court decision. Free speech for the most part going to Republicans.

Republicans are trying to destroy the ability to voice an opposing opinion. Unions support Democrats generally. Unions and Soros are the closest thing Democrats have to "powerhouses". They are targeting the core constituency of the Democrat party to silence them. Republicans are also passing laws that are effective barriers for the poor, minority, and young to be able to vote.

It's painfully obvious Republicans don't represent any interests beyond those of the corporate elites. A class war.

Personally, I'm all in favor of limiting political donations. But if unions aren't allowed to contribute to political campaigns, corporations should be playing from the same playbook. Instead, corps are trying to destroy any voices of dissent to their interests.


neal

[RussellK]

Reagan busted the air-traffic controllers union in 1982. It didn't mean they weren't able to to work with the FAA under a new union 5 years later.

The motor carriers busted the local teamsters here in 1986. They've never reorganized. In 1986 a driver made $14 per hour. Back then lots of people said they were making too much money. In 2011 they make $12 per hour, no overtime, no medical. Yep its been great since Reagan. Sheesh.

[chitwnvw]

IIRC Reagan fired the air traffic controllers when they went on strike, something that was explicitly not allowed in their contract for obvious reasons.

I think if the NFL players need a union, that teachers probably need one too.

[turk]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124804047828063059.html
I don't know if this is the same chief. It's not an isolated thing. PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS ARE POWERHOUSES IN American politics. It's endemic. It's a pandemic.

Where in that article do you see unions responsible for his increase? Are you certain he was even in a union? My neighbor was the City Counselor. He got the same kind of deal when he left his post. I guarantee you he was not in any union. You want to fight this sort of abuse? That's fine. That's admirable But before you go throwing punches maybe it would be prudent to learn who the real targets ought to be. Like the spineless politicos that are responsible for the giveaways and now are trying to convince the public it wasn't their fault.

The article quotes union reps at least twice. I'm not against unions existing. But they do need reform. I don't think they would reform without pressure from the government. I am not a proponent of public sector unions for the same reason FDR wasn't.

[chitwnvw]

I'm not against unions existing. But they do need reform. I don't think they would reform without pressure from the government.

I think we need government to stay out of our business!

[turk]

I'm not against unions existing. But they do need reform. I don't think they would reform without pressure from the government.

I think we need government to stay out of our business!

Which is kinda my point. How can you have collective bargaining with the unlimited funds of tax-payer dollars? It's like me bargaining with, say, Colin to get better rates for his itinerant visits because I work for him as a simple moderator. Joke. No, it's like, say, bargaining with the public through your "representative" you got elected by dint of the political power and funds you extorted from your fellow members supposedly in their interest. It's legal, but it is not representative of your individual members. It's another slush fund you pay into whether you want to or not, going to the union bosses and their elected officials to keep the union powerful. It's not really collective. There is a third party which gets stuck footing their bill in the scheme. That would be tax-payers. FDR laid it out pretty clear, which is why Carter got the CSRA passed, which is why Walker is now reforming Wisconsin's 100 year + law reformed: in the best interests of everyone, not just the unions.

[ruckman101]

It isn't about the money. It's about busting unions and the voices they have representing labor. It's about marginalizing the Democrats. It's about control.


neal

[chitwnvw]

It isn't about the money. It's about busting unions and the voices they have representing labor. It's about marginalizing the Democrats. It's about control.


neal

It is all about weenie waving. Power and control. Government should stay out of it, what right does the government to say that I can't belong to an organization. They should mind their own business!

[hambone]

How can the gov stay out of Fort America and our Billion Dollar Bombers?
With an ecosystem hopelessly out of balance, our cities would be tinderboxes without intervention.
We have created a social monster that now runs amok under it's own power. "Don't tread on me!" quaint but hopelessly naive.