The Nation: Reagan's Real Legacy

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hambone
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Re: The Nation: Reagan's Real Legacy

Post by hambone » Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:35 pm

Reagan was a dick. That was even clear to a 10 year old.
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Re: The Nation: Reagan's Real Legacy

Post by RussellK » Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:02 pm

You at least called that one right. I've been angry ever since the phony Reaganomics. And then once he died and everyone decided to canonize him I've been scratching my head wondering if we were talking about the same President. The only thing Ronnie ever got right was Borax. It really does make my pillowcases brighter.

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Re: The Nation: Reagan's Real Legacy

Post by Westy78 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:30 pm

The perpetual Devil's advocate strikes again and gets his much needed attention. You guys crack me up. ::dlaugh:: It's like a pusher giving the junkie just what he needs.
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Re: The Nation: Reagan's Real Legacy

Post by Elwood » Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:31 pm

:angryfire: Oh and how about "Just say No"---- that really did alot of good to help the hooked vets and homeless on the streets that got kicked out of hospitals. No mercy for way too many years.

And these people that can,t see the homeless need help not ridicule. Such hatefullness is alarming.
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Re: The Nation: Reagan's Real Legacy

Post by Velokid1 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:05 pm

He's right and he's turk and that's all there is to it. DON'T try to tell him any differently because you are wrong and lazy and you smell funny. Plus, how can you be right when you're so damn wrong? Period. End of discussion. Stop talking!!!

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Re: The Nation: Reagan's Real Legacy

Post by ruckman101 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:56 pm

turk wrote:..... I dunno what Portland's scene is like but you should help them if that's your town. Especially if they are being killed. You just sit there and tell me on a forum? DO SOMETHING!!
I find that insulting. Why the assumption I'm not DOING SOMETHING!?

I recently met a guy who told me that the reason there are homeless people is so that he can feel good about himself when he rolls down the window of his Audi TT and gives a dollar to a homeless person at an off-ramp stop sign. I still shake my head in utter disbelief.


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Re: The Nation: Reagan's Real Legacy

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:18 pm

turk wrote:Over 90 % of homeless fit that description. Reagan got it right.
I find this offensively ignorant. Your anecdotal "street cred been there t-shirt" doesn't address the problem, our responsibility, or the solution, in the slightest. It is merely empty braggadocio and it proves nothing but that you are damn quick to the judgmental draw. . . sort of like Rush Limbaugh's acrid criticism of drug addicts, and very much like most of the Faux Newz Fools.

That so many people were dumped out of mental hospitals into the street due to draconian budget cuts did not mean we fixed the problem.
Good grief.
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Re: The Nation: Reagan's Real Legacy

Post by turk » Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:05 pm

I apologize for offending anyone. It's my honest opinion, and swayed by very recent experience harboring one, who honestly doesn't really want to change. Now it's twenty below again, and I hope other friends are helping that person. I should find out.
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Re: The Nation: Reagan's Real Legacy

Post by ruckman101 » Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:02 pm

Taking a homeless person in for a spell is kind of like western medicine. It addresses the symptoms, but not the root cause.


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Re: The Nation: Reagan's Real Legacy

Post by turk » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:11 pm

While that's true, in this climate here in the midwest, it's just something we do in the winter. In this case, we are all friends anyway, but as you might expect, when friends become furniture, playing the same Patsy Cline record over again (metaphorically speaking), and never leave, well there are limits. The responsibility gets handed off to another friend.
A man said to the universe, "Sir I exist! "However," replied the universe, "the fact has not created in me a sense of obligation."

"Let me be perfectly clear" "[...] And so that was just a example of a new senator, you know, making what is a political vote as opposed to doing what was important for the country." Barry Sotero

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Re: The Nation: Reagan's Real Legacy

Post by JLT » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:02 am

I've been following this thread for some time, and I think everybody's making valid points. I might add that I've had some experience with homelessness and homeless people, too, and feel that there are a couple of points still to be made here.

First, one of the hallmarks of the mental disorganization that inflicts many homeless people is that they themselves don't see it, and won't take medication for it (or want to, but can't afford it). These are the people that used to get care in facilities where the staff took care of monitoring them and seeing that they got what they needed. When the facilities closed down, these people were set adrift without the resources to deal with their problem, with the result that they're in a hole and don't realize it. I wouldn't go so far as to say that in the seventies, these people were forcibly held in institutions with their human rights stripped from them, and forced to take medications that they didn't want (and this scenario has actually been proposed as a libertarian justification for closing the clinics), but the point is that they were receiving some sort of help then that they're not getting anymore, without an alternative sort of care. To say that these people have chosen their lifestyle and are content with it is obscuring the issue.

The second point is one that Neal has already noted: in the past few years, the rising unemployment and foreclosure rates has forced many into homelessness. It's hard to get a handle on exactly how many of them there are, because they're still listing "convenience" addresses (usually of friends or relatives) for purposes of getting mail and sending out resumes and employment applications, for which purpose you obviously need to list an address. But around Sacramento, the shelters are seeing a huge upswing in the demand from their services. And these facilities are seeing a lot of people newly demoted from the middle class or lower working class ... certainly not your stereotypical homeless person. And for this new class, homelessness is more often a temporary situation, where they'll rely on help for a few months and then disappear, either because they've found jobs again or moved away to some other place ... their home towns, perhaps ... where help is more forthcoming. As a result, they often don't get counted in the surveys.
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Re: The Nation: Reagan's Real Legacy

Post by Bleyseng » Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:20 am

Good post Colin as I have never liked what Reagan did and stood for. He was a actor and lied, telling the American people a lot of crap to make the poorer poor and the rich richer.
"The poor just need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps"......yeah, right.
The whole BS about the Welfare moma's was absurd but people believed those lies..
His Reaganomics failed! Huge deficit spending, rebuilding the military to WW2 standards, etc while cutting taxes just benefited the rich and insiders.
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Re: The Nation: Reagan's Real Legacy

Post by Sylvester » Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:58 am

To paraphrase Winston Churchill, I did not take the oath I have just taken with the intention of presiding over the dissolution of the world's strongest economy.
Ronald Reagan
Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue, I’ve topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace. Where never lark, or even eagle flew. And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod, The high untrespassed sanctity of space, Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

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JLT
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Re: The Nation: Reagan's Real Legacy

Post by JLT » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:06 am

Sylvester wrote:
To paraphrase Winston Churchill, I did not take the oath I have just taken with the intention of presiding over the dissolution of the world's strongest economy.
Ronald Reagan
Oh, so it wasn't intended. That makes it better, somehow?
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Re: The Nation: Reagan's Real Legacy

Post by turk » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:28 am

So it's all Reagan's fault the economy is below normal now? Is this the thru-line of the thread? Reagan left office over two decades ago. Clinton inherited a peace dividend. The economy started tanking in 1999 remember? Then 9-11 in 2001 drove the recession deeper. Then massive government stimulus and tax cuts buoyed it for about 7 years. This is only some of the various factors. Consider all the fraud and waste in the home loan bubble. But it's always convenient to have a counter-ideology to scapegoat, and Reagan is easy to target, having been dead for 6 years and out of office 23.
A man said to the universe, "Sir I exist! "However," replied the universe, "the fact has not created in me a sense of obligation."

"Let me be perfectly clear" "[...] And so that was just a example of a new senator, you know, making what is a political vote as opposed to doing what was important for the country." Barry Sotero

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