"Obamacare" repeal- can ya justify it?

[BellePlaine]

No, not "Darwin and all".

I am not clamoring about taking personal responsibility or accusing anyone of being too lazy to afford health insurance. I am simply suggesting that a person has a right to property that they ethically and legally acquired and to dispense of that property however they see fit. Just because your bus has 5 good tires and my bus has a flat does not mean that I have a right to your extra tire.

[turk]

I agree. And bringing Darwin into it, I have to comment, completely misses the point of the theory of evolution and natural selection. Health care of humans has nothing to do with it and vise versa.

[Velokid1]

Should my taxes decrease when my kids graduate from high school? I won't need the educational system anymore, so maybe I shouldn't have to pay for any of it.

[RussellK]

Should my taxes decrease when my kids graduate from high school? I won't need the educational system anymore, so maybe I shouldn't have to pay for any of it.

Yes. Yes. And Yes. Why is this so hard for people to get? I hear its about choice as if there is a realistic possibility someone will decline a liver transplant with a wave and a shrug that they made a wrong choice so they'll just go on home and die quietly. It ain't likely to happen. And all of the rest of us that behaved responsibly, or are fortunate enough to be able to afford it, will pay to get him out of a jamb. Which will raise our premiums up up and up until none of us with exception of the very well heeled will be able to pay for ourselves. So we can fix this mess now or wait until we all have to go on medicaid to get our healthcare coverage. Personally it makes more sense to me to get this fixed now. I can take the personal liberty complaints now and will accept the apology later when the rates go down instead of 18% to 37% increases which is the current state we are in.

What really gets me is the discussion always boiling down to insurance cost and never about bringing other cost under control. My Dad is currently in a hospital. He's in a new wing. The corridors are at least 20' wide. The room is private, approx 400 square foot, has a flat screen TV, a leather sofa, combination lock safe. Its nicer than a room in Cancun. This over the top crazy! When he went in his care seemed to have gone on autopilot with tests ordered one after another with nary a care regarding what is the cost and necessity. Now he gets 3 different kinds of therapy daily. This is all great but there is an attendant cost that we as a society have to address.

[turk]

The quality of health care in the U.S. will decline after this thing goes into effect. Lots of people will get out the health care business, including doctors. Just my 2 cents.

[RussellK]

The quality of health care in the U.S. will decline after this thing goes into effect. Lots of people will get out the health care business, including doctors. Just my 2 cents.

That comment wouldn't even get you 2 cents. What rationale did you apply to come up with this? Honestly you may as well have declared when this thing goes into effect Doctors will quit washing their hands.

[turk]

My two cents. All it is. I didn't know we were opining for dollars.

[Velokid1]

Should my taxes decrease when my kids graduate from high school? I won't need the educational system anymore, so maybe I shouldn't have to pay for any of it.

Yes. Yes. And Yes. Why is this so hard for people to get? I hear its about choice as if there is a realistic possibility someone will decline a liver transplant with a wave and a shrug that they made a wrong choice so they'll just go on home and die quietly. It ain't likely to happen. And all of the rest of us that behaved responsibly, or are fortunate enough to be able to afford it, will pay to get him out of a jamb. Which will raise our premiums up up and up until none of us with exception of the very well heeled will be able to pay for ourselves. So we can fix this mess now or wait until we all have to go on medicaid to get our healthcare coverage. Personally it makes more sense to me to get this fixed now. I can take the personal liberty complaints now and will accept the apology later when the rates go down instead of 18% to 37% increases which is the current state we are in.

What really gets me is the discussion always boiling down to insurance cost and never about bringing other cost under control. My Dad is currently in a hospital. He's in a new wing. The corridors are at least 20' wide. The room is private, approx 400 square foot, has a flat screen TV, a leather sofa, combination lock safe. Its nicer than a room in Cancun. This over the top crazy! When he went in his care seemed to have gone on autopilot with tests ordered one after another with nary a care regarding what is the cost and necessity. Now he gets 3 different kinds of therapy daily. This is all great but there is an attendant cost that we as a society have to address.

Loosely related... I am having some health problems right now; actually, the culmination of some health problems I have had for 15 years. A variety of symptoms that are all turning out to be related. Now, I have seen close to 20 different doctors for the various ailments over the years, and I have spent thousands of dollars on prescriptions and therapies, not to mention the 6x that amount the insurance companies have paid for. I am now just a few weeks into a relationship with a naturopathic doctor. Insurance doesn't cover most of it, but he charges me $50 per visit and the herbs and supplements I am taking are about $18 per bottle... and I have seen more improvement in just a few weeks than I have seen for even a single symptom in the past 15 years.

Western Medicine has its place; but in one sense, it totally sucks. It sucks AND is overpriced, so how does that make any sense? If you want your chest cut open to have a heart valve replaced, they're great. But you can't count on them to discover or address the ROOT CAUSE of your heart problems.

We need to figure this shit out. Or not. We could just go on until people are bankrupt or dead.

[RussellK]

Absolutely. Any kind of alternative treatment and you're on your own. I think the closest they might consider is Osteopathy. It's weird they'd reject a chiropractors manipulation but might pay for physical therapy or ever surgery after a primary doctors consultation.

[RussellK]

No, not "Darwin and all".

I am not clamoring about taking personal responsibility or accusing anyone of being too lazy to afford health insurance. I am simply suggesting that a person has a right to property that they ethically and legally acquired and to dispense of that property however they see fit. Just because your bus has 5 good tires and my bus has a flat does not mean that I have a right to your extra tire.

That's right you don't get my extra tire! Know what else? You don't get to run on my highway or roadway with only 3 tires either. Why? Because not only are you endangering me you are also damaging my roadway. So you are required to pay some of your ethically acquired cash for that fourth tire. And it ought to be that way with healthcare. Want to use the system we have bought and paid for by paying pumped up premiums through the years? Fine. Buy in just like the rest of us. That way we all share our legitimate burden instead of some of us paying more for the folks who wish to live by the roll of the dice.

And you want to know what really angers me? That this discussion breaks down to only dollars and cents. It shouldn't. It should stop at because affordable healthcare ought to be available for all and we have means and sense of decency to do it. Not this stupid, its not fair to ask me - well its not fair for you to cost me discussion. How do you break a quality of life discussion down to this pettiness in what's supposed to be the most affluent nation in the world. It makes my head hurt.

[BellePlaine]

If I cared about getting to my destination, I'd make sure that I was prepared with a contingency plan in the event of a flat so most likely I'd be ok on my own. I would, however, be very grateful to you for stopping and checking on my situation... not that I'd expect or count on you to do so. With the exception of underage children, a person should have the right to determine how (or how not to) treat their body. Just as they should have the right to leave home without a spare tire. If you are an adult, you should have a right to be dangerous with yourself to yourself.

We might be the most affluent nation in the world, but it's a rouse because we are living high on the hog on credit. You should be able to determine what "quality" means as in the quality of life. Not everyone wants thinks that you just have to pay a little bit more to achieve a certain quality of life standard. Not everyone equivocates health care coverage with good living.

We've been down this road before and I respect you viewpoints. Everyone should have affordable healthcare. That would be nice.

[RussellK]

Can you answer these questions? In your opinion; should a person be allowed to participate in our healthcare system even if they choose not to carry insurance and do not have the means to pay for their healthcare? If someone bears that cost, who should that be? Why? What would be an acceptable solution for those people who would like to afford health coverage but simply because of their level of income cannot pay for it? If a person elected not to obtain coverage and they have dependents what should be done to provide for those dependents? Who should bear their cost? Why? What steps would you undertake to make healthcare affordable for all?

[BellePlaine]

Can you answer these questions? In your opinion; should a person be allowed to participate in our healthcare system even if they choose not to carry insurance and do not have the means to pay for their healthcare?

I don't know. I don't own a hospital so the service would not be mine to offer for free. I think that there are public hospitals/doctors offices that exist where someone can pay a percentage of their paycheck.

If someone bears that cost, who should that be? Why? What would be an acceptable solution for those people who would like to afford health coverage but simply because of their level of income cannot pay for it?

Family, neighbors, charities and local/state governments should bear those costs. Since these governments have to have balanced budgets the local community would have to find the service valuable enough to support it with taxes/other service cuts.

If a person elected not to obtain coverage and they have dependents what should be done to provide for those dependents? Who should bear their cost? Why? What steps would you undertake to make healthcare affordable for all?

The guardian is responsible for the health of their dependents. Ultimately, a minor's healthcare must be given even if the guardian does not have insurance. I see it as a state issue; if I was a governor, I might tax soda, video gaming systems, and candy to fund it.

[ruckman101]

The more in, the cheaper for all. Single payer.

neal

[RussellK]

BP- Do I have it correct you see the solutions as being best served on a local level? Public Hospitals (my fair city closed its two about a decade ago) Local and State government funding and paying for healthcare?. If I have this correct what do you see as a means to control the disparity in care between regions? Would you limit the movement of citizens from one region to another if that movement placed a burden on a region? Would local government have a role controlling the increasing cost of insurance premiums? What apparatus do you see that could legally force an insurance company to serve a market if that company objected to how local control of premiums were being applied?