WikiLeaks

[vdubyah73]

the residents of Puerto Rico have to decide whether to shit or get off the pot. They have had the right to vote for their independence, statehood or to remain a commonwealth, for a long time. I guess the voters choose to remain a commonwealth territory of the US.

The citizens of American Samoa are nearly 90% native. they are happy to be "exploited".

Maybe right or maybe wrong about Guam. interesting to note that Guam has the highest rate of enlistment in the National Guard or Army Reserve of any other state or commonwealth.

There was an island chain we used to own in the pacific, after liberating it from the Japanese, can't remember the name. saw a special on PBS about it. we granted them complete independence with one exception, we kept one island for a naval base. The people reverted to their aboriginal form of society. No money, no property is private, If you"re hungry someone will give you a fish. They want an education we give it to them, they need medical care we give it to them, they get wracked by a storm we support their rebuilding in whatever way they request. Yeah we're the meanest exploiters on the planet.

The US is still a big bad exploitating meany in the lefts eyes. doesn't matter what outcome freedom has. it will be better than being an American citizen.

[Velokid1]

The US is still a big bad exploitating meany in the lefts eyes. doesn't matter what outcome freedom has. it will be better than being an American citizen.

That's an exaggeration. There are people who call the US a big bad exploiting meanie when the US is being a big bad exploiting meanie. And the rest of the time, we celebrate the wonderful country we are lucky (not entitled... just lucky) enough to live in.

Personally, I'd love to see the U.S. make a habit out of going into other countries to spread freedom, and for that purpose only. But there is almost always a financial motivator. We don't often go just to spread freedom; all too often we go to spread our economic reach.

[vdubyah73]

exaggeration is what both the left and right wings do so well, insidiously. It's like 2 kids after a fight, the truth always lies somewhere in the middle. Our involvement in middle eastern affairs is about oil. back in the beginning of the cold war there was a real fear of Soviet expansion. It was believed that the Soviets would annex oil rich countries and control the majority of the oil supply of the world. the free world couldn't/wouldn't accept that. we propped up dictatorships as a bulwark against that. the lesser of two evils. our actions now are to stabilize and bring basic human rights and freedoms to the region. granted, it hasn't worked out as quickly or smoothly as you'd like to see. those who remember the early cold war should also remember how scary it was. the A-bomb was new and freaking scary. drills in kindergarten for duck and cover. if you didn't live through it you have no idea how frightening it was. Vietnam began for the same reasons, fear of communist expansion. the chinese were fighting with the viet cong using soviet air support and weapons If you didn't live during the age you would never understand.


http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675 ... nder-seats

I remember seeing this exact footage when I was a single digit kid, kindergarten, 1'st grade, I'm old enough to remember when TV wasn't 24 hours, waiting for the broadcast day to start with the indian head tuning signal and the the Star Spangled Banner with president Eisenhower and the flag in the breeze. after that it was Captain Kangaroo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7cNota7aHs

[Velokid1]

exaggeration is what both the left and right wings do so well, insidiously.

Were we talking about left and right wings? I don't think so. But I agree with you on the hyperbole charge.

Atom bombs are scary, yep. So are many things. But the things we were subjected to as kids were meant to scare us. They weren't reasonable or logical. C'mon, hiding under our desks in the event of a nuclear attack?

I was very aware in elementary school (early 80s) that we WOULD die from nuclear war very soon. I lived with that "reality" as a kid. I don't blame the Soviets for that ridiculous fear that was instilled in us; there were obviously certain people and organizations who benefited from everyone believing we were doomed. And today we have Terrorism! Same thing. Real thing, very scary... NOT the urgent threat we are told it is. Note I didn't say "not a threat." It's just not the urgent threat many want to believe it is.

If you didn't live during the age you would never understand.

How convenient for people of your age.

[turk]

They weren't reasonable or logical. C'mon, hiding under our desks in the event of a nuclear attack?

I was very aware in elementary school (early 80s) that we WOULD die from nuclear war very soon. I lived with that "reality" as a kid. I don't blame the Soviets for that ridiculous fear that was instilled in us; there were obviously certain people and organizations who benefited from everyone believing we were doomed. And today we have Terrorism! Same thing. Real thing, very scary... NOT the urgent threat we are told it is. Note I didn't say "not a threat." It's just not the urgent threat many want to believe it is.

If you didn't live during the age you would never understand.

How convenient for people of your age.

I wasn't around for Cuban Missile Crisis, but it was real, as far as I can tell. We didn't do the hiding under the desk but I don't see why they wouldn't do that. What else were they supposed to do? Not an urgent threat? Why wouldn't it be? If you think about it you know who (or what) shoulda' won a Nobel Peace Prize? Well, I won't go there, but maybe you get my drift. I'm on ignore.

[ruckman101]

Us, them, 'tis really a shame the reality is we.


neal

[ruckman101]

It's a Wonderful Life. Miss you George.


neal

[Velokid1]

And today we have Terrorism! Same thing. Real thing, very scary... NOT the urgent threat we are told it is. Note I didn't say "not a threat." It's just not the urgent threat many want to believe it is.

I wasn't around for Cuban Missile Crisis, but it was real, as far as I can tell. We didn't do the hiding under the desk but I don't see why they wouldn't do that. What else were they supposed to do? Not an urgent threat? Why wouldn't it be? If you think about it you know who (or what) shoulda' won a Nobel Peace Prize? Well, I won't go there, but maybe you get my drift. I'm on ignore.

I'm not saying the Soviet Union, the atomic bomb or "terrorism" aren't real threats. I said they aren't urgent threats. Analogy time again:

Real threat = drinking Cokes every day of your life may lead to diabetes and other grave health issues.

Fabricated "urgent" threat = drinking a Coke daily guarantees you will croak within the next 12 months, so you mustn't ever drink a Coke, AND we are trying to pass legislation making it illegal to even utter the word "cola."

[vdubyah73]

they were urgent threats in the '50's and '60's. Both sides were scared shitless the other side would dominate the world. The duck and cover was a protection from the shock wave if you were far enough away from the epicenter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXMSC8uleiE

My destroyer in the Navy was named after Admiral Blandy. The Bikini Atoll tests were under his command. Sailors were exposed to the shock waves and radiation on purpose as the tests continued in order to determine counter actions for survival. duck and cover could save lives...... if you were far enough away and could evacuate before fallout reached you. our parents knew that masses of the population would die, we kids didn't.

The western world is slowly uniting against terror threats. The recent foiled attempts show it, cooperation between governments with intelligence, unlike in the past.

[glasseye]

Many people hate Keith Olbermann, even more hate Michael Moore. I'm not among them. This video makes some pretty valid points about Wikileaks.

http://www.truth-out.org/michael-moore- ... video65978

[ruckman101]

The FBI does have a knack for foiling their own plots, once someone points out a patsy for them to exploit.


neal

[ruckman101]

So the Air Force is responding to the WikiLeaks releases by stomping on free speech.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 68506.html

I guess an informed military might not be as eager to kill in the name of the Koch Brothers.


neal

[ruckman101]

Oh oh. So much for that spreading democracy myth. Ruthless dictators are so much easier to deal with.

http://www.rall.com/rallblog/page/2


neal

[vdubyah73]

there is absolutely no political slant there, is there? where are the facts.
for instance the turkmenistan reference fails to mention that the country is under Russias sphere of influence, not ours. We had to negotiate with both Turkmenistan and Russia to put a resupply base there. stop reading opinions and come up with your own.

[ruckman101]

there is absolutely no political slant there, is there? where are the facts.
for instance the turkmenistan reference fails to mention that the country is under Russias sphere of influence, not ours. We had to negotiate with both Turkmenistan and Russia to put a resupply base there. stop reading opinions and come up with your own.

Diplomatic cables.


neal