North Korea has nukes. :(

[vdubyah73]

Actually it was, IIRC,Clinton and Carters fault. Clinton sent Carter to negotiate with Ill Kim. Carter gave NK the farm! NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY!

Bill

[steve74baywin]

Another interesting thought I had this morning while watching the Today Show-- Once again we are only given a few options,,,they bank on the average citizen not being able to think on there own...
IE,,most of you should know by now that for Iraq we were only given a few things to debate in the media...
Now it's, "wait for them to fire a nuke at us" or we attack first...Um,,,wait a minute, what about what worked against the Soviets for years....Anti missiles? What did we do, throw them all away????

[DjEep]

Actually it was, IIRC,Clinton and Carters fault. Clinton sent Carter to negotiate with Ill Kim. Carter gave NK the farm! NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY!

Bill

No, Bush's buddies in Islamabad gave him "the farm."

More on your Clinton and Carter theory here, Bill.
Make sure to click the embedded links regarding Clinton & Carter.
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200 ... ngs_it_on/

[DjEep]

Put the whole fuckin' world on notice. If we see one ballistic missle launched in agression we will nuke the agressor back to the stone age. The other nuclear nations will sit and watch without doing anything except maybe the French who will whine.

An ultimatum like that gives all other nuclear nations the right to do the same. What about the Russians? They aren't going to sit on their hands when we launch ballistic missiles in their general direction. Read a newspaper lately?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01546.html

Nobody wins in a nuclear war

[Amskeptic]

Nobody wins in a nuclear war

Exactly my point. Bill, we had M.A.D. and a parity of nerve-wracking 'balance with the Soviets. It was Reagan and all the neo-con idiots with connections to the military-industrial complex who upset the apple cart with their ridiculous space-based defense initiative and work on the neutron bomb "hey, it doesn't damage infrastructure". . . . .

Don't for a second think that missile shields will work, neither will our interception technology. Missiles are not the delivery vehicle of choice for terrorists anyways. Once again the lumbering $$$$$ Fools chase after expensive pie-in-the-sky foolishness that only enriches themselves. If they detonate a pile of crushed aluminum coke cans in a missile that has reached our air space, our defense shield will be instantly overwhelmed with confusion. Like when the NORAD system went on high alert at a gaggle of geese. That would be a silly-ass cause of WWIII. . . .
Do not forget the rigged "interceptor tests" July 2001. Bastards.

Once we showed the world that we will stop at nothing and obey no international agreement, what little country wouldn't be nervous?
Cut the tit-for-tat political sniping, this is way deeper than that.
Colin

[hambone]

It really comes down to the ancient proverbial question once the politix have been sliced thru:
Do you, as an individual, want to perpetuate Love or war? 1 person ultimately decides the answer, affecting the future directly. Non violence is the only answer, which ripples thru time and space.
The burrito we eat today becomes tomorrow's action-fuel. Cause and effect...
Oh that's right, the terrorists the terrorists....BOO. I'm not living my life in fear, nor will I participate in a group "shit where we eat". Face to face, 1 man to another, 1 point in time - right now. Everything else is a fairy tale or some other dusty dream.

[DurocShark]

Face to face, 1 man to another, 1 point in time - right now.

Let me know how your face to face meeting with Kim Jong Il goes....

;)

[hambone]

Face to face, 1 man to another, 1 point in time - right now.

Let me know how your face to face meeting with Kim Jong Il goes....

;)

I am not in that situation right now. But if I were, I wouldn't act any differently. And if it's my last breath, it will not contain malice or hatred. Don't tell me that won't affect the cosmic soup. Every act has an impact. You're in more danger driving to work in the morning than from some political situation a million miles from home. Tell me, if the US didn't stockpile all those nuclear weapons, how many other nations would have a nervous trigger-finger? Aren't we all somewhat responsible for every act of violence worldwide? How many billions are earned thru the sale and manufacture of weapons and weapons of mass destruction? We are setting precident and example.
"O lord let me be an instrument of thye peace" St. Francis of Assisi

[hambone]

From the BBC (to provide contrast to this discussion):
North Koreans face daily struggle
By Jill McGivering
BBC News

North Korea's economy is in crisis

Existing sanctions against North Korea have already taken their toll on the country's economy.
North Korea is such a closed society that it is hard to get an accurate picture of daily life there.
Many visitors only see Pyongyang - its big Soviet-style apartment blocks, broad streets, cars and street vendors.
But the capital is very much a showcase for the outside world, somewhere only privileged North Koreans can live.
In many rural areas, daily life is a basic struggle for enough to eat.
The World Food Programme estimates more than a third of the country's children are chronically malnourished.

Economic crisis

Survival is especially hard in the harsh winters. In the towns, supplies of electricity and water are sporadic.
Outside them, the small rural houses do not have a direct water supplies and people use wood-burning stoves to keep warm.
Only privileged North Koreans are able to live in the capital
The infrastructure, too, is basic - with few surfaced roads.
There is an extensive railway network but it is primitive and, like many things in North Korea, badly in need of investment and modernisation.
Few people can afford cars. Most walk or use bicycles.
The health and education systems used to be a source of pride in North Korea. Now some reports suggest they too are struggling.
The economy is clearly in crisis.
North Korea simply cannot produce enough food to feed its population. And at the same time, it is seeing exports dwindle.
Japan used to be an important market for fish and textiles, but Tokyo's latest sanctions have ended that.
Future South Korean investment is uncertain as well.
And the key player is China - which supplies the North with much-needed food and oil and buys North Korean minerals and metals.

[DurocShark]

From the BBC (to provide contrast to this discussion):

Like I said before, you have to get away from US media outlets to get the real story. Our media, whether liberal or conservative, shows just a very narrow view.

[steve74baywin]

The answer of what to do or not to do or why we aren't persuing a more peaceful solution seems to be hard to figure,,,,,Well,,,
I know I have said this before, but
it's looks to me that if you plug in the agenda which seems to be the best explanation for all the things done in the past 5 years that doesn't make sense,,,that causes us to say these guys are stupid, etc, etc... Plug this in,,,there agenda is to control, dominate and get rich....
That works all the time, it is the perfect explanation to answer the why's and how comes?

[Amskeptic]

their agenda is to control, dominate and get rich.... it is the perfect explanation to answer the why's and how comes?

Now that we have diagnosed the problem, what shall we do to drag the pigs from the trough? We have the grease of complacency and the short-windedness of the American lifestyle to help us.
Colin

[hambone]

Now that we have diagnosed the problem, what shall we do to drag the pigs from the trough? We have the grease of complacency and the short-windedness of the American lifestyle to help us.

It it our duty? Is it possible? Should change occur based on 1's perception? Is society self correcting and governed by a collective unconcious?
This is all a stunning example of the lessons of cause and effect that govern every millisecond of this tangible existence. "Here's what happens WHEN..."
Colin, you know the answer. You're living the life, treating everybody you meet across the nation like a brother or sister. Don't tell me you don't see the direct impact of these actions. And here we all are in 0101011001 land sharing this grand experiment.
What we need is more people to take direct action - not by storming an embassy or writing a scathing article, but by breathing deeply and treating each man like a brother. I'm tellin ya it works. You feel better too, which almost seems the entire point. Without the perceiver, does the perceived exist?
We all need to make a strong effort to be good to one another. It's not as easy as it sounds, but it's the only way to affect deep change. [/i]

[steve74baywin]

their agenda is to control, dominate and get rich.... it is the perfect explanation to answer the why's and how comes?

Now that we have diagnosed the problem, what shall we do to drag the pigs from the trough? We have the grease of complacency and the short-windedness of the American lifestyle to help us.
Colin

Those are some good ideas Hambone, but, I'm not sure if we can wait that long, and the forces spreading the US IS GOD DOMINATE ALL mindset might have us out numbered. I'm not sure what we can do....Probably hope for enough change to keep it at bay for a while...

[LiveonJG]

Very well said Hambone.