Adherence to the constitution, and perhaps Natural Law..

[steve74baywin]

If we didn't enforce our will on other countries but just lived the example here, other countries would see the benefits and we still would be a great successful country...
We could help countries,,,not as a gov function, but as individuals,,and I don't mean help them by giving them stuff or making them dependent on us, but by sharing knowledge....
I don't know about you all but I love to help others if and when I can, especially if it is just knowledge and not tons of time and money that perhaps I can't spare....
Of course now, by living the example I mean we wouldn't have all this federal BS, all the laws that are above and beyond protecting our freedoms and rights as individuals...And I also mean no cronies running the show,,,and if the cronies hadn't infiltrated our systems we wouldn't have most of the junk that shouldn't be there....


If a community was more self dependent instead of dependent from a huge system from a far, there would perhaps be the right amount of people for the work needed,,and if enough was provided and some couldn't work 40 hours perhaps we all would just have to work less than 40 hours instead of gov creating jobs....If our needs were met, why would we have to all keep working 40 hours or more?
I feel even the immigration issue would be better.....Would people flock to communities that didn't have work or free gov handouts? And would your neighbors give work to newly migrated people and screw over there community knowing this will only come back to bite them hard and strong when they hurt those that they have worked with for years???
This is just the start of I hope a good discussion I hope.....

[LiveonJG]

I find it amazing how the "hot" political topic these days seems to be blowing up the government and letting the chips fall where they may. The things that set us apart as modern day Americans are our ignorance and damn short attention spans. For 200+ years this government has functioned, at times quite well, at others not so much. Right now we are standing on the brink of an economic meltdown. Anyone catch any of Ben Bernanke's all out plea to Congress today for quick passage of an economic stimulus package to prevent the impeding recession? Eight years ago I thought that FOUR years of a corporatist stooge like GWB would wake this country up. Man was I wrong. Eight years later, some are just beginning to become aware of the disaster that has been the administration of GWB. In typical American fashion we move towards an over the top reaction. We can't just vote these douchbags out of office, we have to dismantle our government and turn it over to the same corporate interests that have done so well since Reagan began this little romp down the "hate your ineffective government" trail. I cannot believe the droves of sheep being drawn to this message. Some say that Americans are, in general, stupid. I don't really know if that is the case, what I do know is that don't bother to pay attention. And that is what really pisses me off!

-John

[turk]

I find it amazing how the "hot" political topic these days seems to be blowing up the government and letting the chips fall where they may. The things that set us apart as modern day Americans are our ignorance and damn short attention spans. For 200+ years this government has functioned, at times quite well, at others not so much. Right now we are standing on the brink of an economic meltdown. Anyone catch any of Ben Bernanke's all out plea to Congress today for quick passage of an economic stimulus package to prevent the impeding recession? Eight years ago I thought that FOUR years of a corporatist stooge like GWB would wake this country up. Man was I wrong. Eight years later, some are just beginning to become aware of the disaster that has been the administration of GWB. In typical American fashion we move towards an over the top reaction. We can't just vote these douchbags out of office, we have to dismantle our government and turn it over to the same corporate interests that have done so well since Reagan began this little romp down the "hate your ineffective government" trail. I cannot believe the droves of sheep being drawn to this message. Some say that Americans are, in general, stupid. I don't really know if that is the case, what I do know is that don't bother to pay attention. And that is what really pisses me off!

-John

Okay, I'm just not sure federal control is the best solution to this problem (and I do agree it's a big problem). Corporate interests seem just as "in control" of the process in both scenarios (to my limited perception). Tell me how it's different. I really want to know. Something needs to be done, agreed.

[Amskeptic]

I'm just not sure federal control is the best solution to this problem (and I do agree it's a big problem). Corporate interests seem just as "in control" of the process in both scenarios (to my limited perception). Tell me how it's different. I really want to know. Something needs to be done, agreed.

What the hell control is the best solution, then? The self-interested corporate idiots who have been conducting the acid drip against government since the Reagan "Revolution" have never been held accountable for their spew. Privatization has done no better in any instance. Our government used to attract people who wanted to serve the country. Who the hell has turned government employees into lazy bureaucrats? Shame on them.

The Federal Government has one exceptionally important quality that you best acknowledge. It HAS to respond to We The People. Of course, We The People do not avail ourselves of this true power in our hands. Voting works when we vote based on informed choice. Private interests have proven time and again that they are conscienceless profit seeking bottom line protecting psychopaths.

DO NOT FEAR the Federal Government when it plays by the rules, we have transparent functions written into our most basic charters that have only been hidden by the bastards who denigrate it and abuse it for their own gain (the White House is "recycling" the email tapes, demanded by investigators, as per "accepted business practices"?? Give me a break! ) This investigation into the Valerie Plame outing is the government attempting to hold itself accountable and it is only the pigs who don't give a damn who fuck it up and then claim that the government sucks. Social Security, folks, is a free-standing program that has a positive balance! Today! Clinton/Gore wanted to invest the surplus into it where compouinding interest would have made it solvent for the forseeable future. . . look at what happened. It is fatally wounded. And the rich who refuse to consider raising the ceiling for contributing to Social Security can go to hell. They are utterly blind to their good fortune. It was sabotaged by people who are profoundly mean-spirited, selfish, single-mindedly blind to any sense of social contract which is the very definition of a Nation.
Colin

[LiveonJG]

Okay, I'm just not sure federal control is the best solution to this problem (and I do agree it's a big problem). Corporate interests seem just as "in control" of the process in both scenarios (to my limited perception). Tell me how it's different. I really want to know. Something needs to be done, agreed.

Good point about the lack of any substantive difference. When government works at its best, it acts as a counterweight to corporate interests, at it worst, a rubber stamp. Look at either Roosevelt Administration, or even the Jefferson Admin. if you want to go waaaay back to see what I'm talking about. Your government is only as effective as the representatives you elect to work on your behalf. For me, for president, that guy, is John Edwards. Look at it this way, he's the only major candidate that talks the talk when it comes to taking this government back for the people whom it is supposed to serve. (Crazy concept, government to serve the people isn't it?) Have you noticed how Edwards is being systemically ignored by the "liberal" mainstream media? That's because the mega-corps that now own the "liberal" mainstream media don't want us, the American people exposed to ideas that could ultimately lead to halting their ever growing power. Thinking about it, Ron Paul is an interesting phenomenon. Here's a guy, that for all intents and purposes, tows the corporate line better than anyone, yet his opposition to the War in Iraq puts him in the company of "undesirables". My god man? Why would anyone be opposed to the greatest boon to the free market since the Reconstruction?

-John

[turk]

Liveon,
Yeah, I like Edwards too. I've only seen him a few times in the debates and he left me cold because of the lawyerly tint in his delivery. I'm a complete moron really when it comes to sifting through all the hyperbole and doublespeak to come to a sound opinion on just who is the best candidate. I've been through it before and it just keeps getting worse it seems! I gotta give Edwards props for claiming he never took a lobbyist dime and his apparent concern for the middle class.

Colin,
Thanks for your insight. I'll seriously consider your points on fed versus private control of our social programs.

[Quadratrückseite]

I live in John Edwards' neck of the woods. A lot of people here aren't too fond of him. He seems like he is for the middle class, the environment, etc. But when you see this house he built recently in Orange County, the largest in the county at a whopping 28,000+ square feet, you have to wonder...

Heard a guy on the radio who lives across the street from where he built this house. He said logging trucks were pulling out of the site constantly for two weeks or more - he had cut down literally thousands of trees to carve out some yard space.
Yet, he's a supposed environmentalist - he wants a ban on SUVs, yet check out all of the circled ones in the photo.
http://www.grist.org/cgi-bin/printthis. ... index.html

In his current campaign for president, Edwards has been more aggressive on the issue of climate change than other Democratic candidates, who've ended up following his lead.

Read an interview with John Edwards by Grist and Outside.

Key Points

First presidential candidate to call for reducing greenhouse-gas emissions 80 percent by 2050, in March 2007. Would launch a cap-and-trade program in 2010 to bring emissions down 15 percent by 2020, as an interim step to the 2050 goal.

First major presidential candidate to make his campaign carbon-neutral, in March 2007. He's buying carbon offsets to neutralize the effects of his campaign travel and office energy use, while also cutting energy consumption at campaign offices, buying recycled-paper office products, and encouraging staff to walk to work and take other energy-saving measures. (Tom Vilsack was actually the first candidate to go carbon neutral, but he dropped out of the race in February 2007.)

Introduced a detailed energy plan before any of the other candidates.

Proposes a $13-billion-a-year New Energy Economy Fund that would invest in renewable energy, efficiency, carbon-capture technology, and cleaner cars; help entrepreneurs start new clean businesses; encourage Americans to buy more-efficient appliances and save energy; and help workers in carbon-intensive industries transition to new job fields. The fund would be financed by the auctioning of permits to emit greenhouse gases and the repeal of some oil-industry tax breaks.

Calls for a ban on new coal power plants unless they're compatible with carbon-capture and -storage technology.

Opposes nuclear power.

Opposes government investment in coal-to-liquid technologies.

Has been endorsed by Friends of the Earth for his position on nuclear power and early support of strict climate legislation.

He may have come from common roots, but he doesn't represent the common man anymore.

[Velokid1]

Here's the thing: people with this fear-based reaction to, for instance, what Ron Paul is talking about when it comes to bringing the federal govt under control (it is abhorrently massive, folks!... it's like taking a quarry truck on a bike path) always think in this black and white way. "Either we keep the federal government as is, or we get rid of it completely."

There is a difference, I do believe, between downsizing a monstrous, out-of-control, ineffecient-as-hell federal government to a size that makes sense... and getting rid of it completely.

I don't know what it is with some folks who seem to be otherwise so informed-- you mention removing unneccesary parts of the federal government and suddenly you're anti-federal government. There's no sense of nuance or graduation at all.

The federal government has its place.

It is out of its place.

It needs to be fixed.

Simple.

[LiveonJG]

He may have come from common roots, but he doesn't represent the common man anymore.

What candidate does?

-John

[Quadratrückseite]

He may have come from common roots, but he doesn't represent the common man anymore.

What candidate does?

-John

None that I can see! I'm sick of them all.
The only one that semi-interests me is Ron Paul, but the odds of him getting the nomination are about the same as a candy bar surviving an hour in fat camp.

[turk]

Here's the thing: people with this fear-based reaction to, for instance, what Ron Paul is talking about when it comes to bringing the federal govt under control (it is abhorrently massive, folks!... it's like taking a quarry truck on a bike path) always think in this black and white way. "Either we keep the federal government as is, or we get rid of it completely."

There is a difference, I do believe, between downsizing a monstrous, out-of-control, ineffecient-as-hell federal government to a size that makes sense... and getting rid of it completely.

I don't know what it is with some folks who seem to be otherwise so informed-- you mention removing unneccesary parts of the federal government and suddenly you're anti-federal government. There's no sense of nuance or graduation at all.

The federal government has its place.

It is out of its place.

It needs to be fixed.

Simple.

That's a good point Velo. I didn't see that nuance myself. I did notice the way posters bandwagon on a characterizing catchword like "compassion" which is valid but, like you point out, can paint a very black and white picture, not quite showing the reality of it.

[turk]

What the hell control is the best solution, then? The self-interested corporate idiots who have been conducting the acid drip against government since the Reagan "Revolution" have never been held accountable for their spew. Privatization has done no better in any instance.

Okay, corporate, idiots or not, is the way this country has been run for a long time. The word corporation has a negative connotation but that's what America has been almost since it's inception. Yes, "they" have interests, but I still hope those interests can be mutually beneficial to their "host" communities as they often have-- not always -- in the past which did build America through the good and bad times.
I'm not sure what corporations have been given a pass for their spew since the Reagan Revolution or the fact you claim, "privatization has done no better in any instance", but I'm listening to what examples you can cite.

The Federal Government has one exceptionally important quality that you best acknowledge. It HAS to respond to We The People. Of course, We The People do not avail ourselves of this true power in our hands. Voting works when we vote based on informed choice. Private interests have proven time and again that they are conscienceless profit seeking bottom line protecting psychopaths.

I'm not entirely sure about the line you draw here. The feds and the corporations can sleep better together than apart if you get my drift. I'm open to suggestion as to why they should be working in a closed relationship with no competition.

DO NOT FEAR the Federal Government when it plays by the rules, we have transparent functions written into our most basic charters that have only been hidden by the bastards who denigrate it and abuse it for their own gain (the White House is "recycling" the email tapes, demanded by investigators, as per "accepted business practices"?? Give me a break! ) This investigation into the Valerie Plame outing is the government attempting to hold itself accountable and it is only the pigs who don't give a damn who fuck it up and then claim that the government sucks. Social Security, folks, is a free-standing program that has a positive balance! Today! Clinton/Gore wanted to invest the surplus into it where compouinding interest would have made it solvent for the forseeable future. . . look at what happened. It is fatally wounded. And the rich who refuse to consider raising the ceiling for contributing to Social Security can go to hell. They are utterly blind to their good fortune. It was sabotaged by people who are profoundly mean-spirited, selfish, single-mindedly blind to any sense of social contract which is the very definition of a Nation.
Colin

My point?

[LiveonJG]

I live in John Edwards' neck of the woods. A lot of people here aren't too fond of him. He seems like he is for the middle class, the environment, etc. But when you see this house he built recently in Orange County, the largest in the county at a whopping 28,000+ square feet, you have to wonder...

Heard a guy on the radio who lives across the street from where he built this house. He said logging trucks were pulling out of the site constantly for two weeks or more - he had cut down literally thousands of trees to carve out some yard space.
Yet, he's a supposed environmentalist - he wants a ban on SUVs, yet check out all of the circled ones in the photo.

With all due respect Quad, this sounds a lot like the accusations that were thrown at Al Gore after An Inconvenient Truth came out. Come on, a guy on the radio said he saw? That's called hearsay and it is considered irrelevant in a court of law, i.e. it doesn't hold water. Secondly we see a number of SUVs around his property, does that mean they are all his? Could they belong to various trades on a jobsite? Could he have visitors?

Has John Edwards been a success? Yes.

Does he deserve to enjoy the fruits of his labor? Yes.

This attack seems like nothing more than another Rovian hit piece filled with half truth and innuendo. Lets look beyond what we are fed, a critical eye will get you far.


-John

[turk]

This attack seems like nothing more than another Rovian hit piece filled with half truth and innuendo. Lets look beyond what we are fed, a critical eye will get you far.


-John

I felt kinda the same when I looked at the pic. Plus, they missed at least 1 suv. I'm still open on who I'll vote for. Hell, I'm excited about it.
Interesting post Quad.

[Quadratrückseite]

I live in John Edwards' neck of the woods. A lot of people here aren't too fond of him. He seems like he is for the middle class, the environment, etc. But when you see this house he built recently in Orange County, the largest in the county at a whopping 28,000+ square feet, you have to wonder...

Heard a guy on the radio who lives across the street from where he built this house. He said logging trucks were pulling out of the site constantly for two weeks or more - he had cut down literally thousands of trees to carve out some yard space.
Yet, he's a supposed environmentalist - he wants a ban on SUVs, yet check out all of the circled ones in the photo.

With all due respect Quad, this sounds a lot like the accusations that were thrown at Al Gore after An Inconvenient Truth came out. Come on, a guy on the radio said he saw? That's called hearsay and it is considered irrelevant in a court of law, i.e. it doesn't hold water. Secondly we see a number of SUVs around his property, does that mean they are all his? Could they belong to various trades on a jobsite? Could he have visitors?

Has John Edwards been a success? Yes.

Does he deserve to enjoy the fruits of his labor? Yes.

This attack seems like nothing more than another Rovian hit piece filled with half truth and innuendo. Lets look beyond what we are fed, a critical eye will get you far.

-John

I agree he deserves to enjoy the fruits of his labor - I think we all do.

Ok - let's throw out the guy on the radio as "hearsay."
But...look at the picture with a critical eye. Do you see those large areas of red and tan (what the red dirt looks like when it's dry) dirt? That's NC soil - kind of clay based. It's not seen until it is dug up - if that were a normal open area it would be covered in grasses and scrub trees.
Large trees used to live there. There are no large areas of open grass in this area of North Carolina. This area is covered in Loblolly Pines, along with some sweet gum and other hardwoods. The fact of the matter is he clear cut a huge chunk of his property to have a big open "yard."

As for this sounding like what was thrown at Gore, you're right.
As far as I'm concerned, I love his message, whether it might be a tad extremist or not, it's a message people need to hear. But...it's another case of "do as I say, not as I do." Gore pollutes more than I ever will with his cross country flights promoting his cause. Who cares if he buys "carbon offsets" to make up for the fact that he's polluting? He's still polluting more than most people. I plant trees every year, something I will probably have to stop soon since I've almost run out of space! It sickens me to see them cut down to make a "big yard."

As far as the SUVs, I didn't mean to imply that they were his - but this is his stand on them:

Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards told a labor group that he would ask Americans to make a big sacrifice: their sport utility vehicles.

"I think Americans are actually willing to sacrifice," Edwards said Tuesday during a forum held by the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers. "One of the things they should be asked to do is drive more fuel efficient vehicles."

The former North Carolina senator was asked specifically if he would tell them to give up their SUVs, he said, "Yes."

Just not the ones that come to his house.

I actually like John Edwards. He is my favorite of the Democrat candidates. But the way I see it, he, along with most of the candidates, have some double standards on some of their supposed key issues. That's the crap I'm sick of. Republican, Democrat - doesn't matter. I look at everything with a critical eye, and try to examine all sides before I make an opinion. I was merely offering an opinion with a local flavor.

I now eagerly await the attack of fervent Gore/Edwards supporters.

turk - I saw that they missed one too! Actually at least two more that I can see.