Vote!

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sgkent
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Re: Vote!

Post by sgkent » Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:18 pm

your logic baffles me. It is from an emotional view, not a logical point. That is the problem using emotions to validate a position. If emotion changes towards something or someone it validates or invalidates the position. My decisions have been based in what I see with my own eyes, not what someone tells me or I read in a politically biased paper.

EVERYTHING in life has a cost. Nothing comes free. Life is the ying and yang. One cannot have day without night. One cannot have health without illness, life without death, right without left. One can never make a perfect world. It is impossible. Poverty must exist for there to be wealth, death must exist if there is to be life, happiness for some requires some be sad. For there to be a victor there must be a defeated. As to the rioting question, if you stand by and watch someone hurt someone else without doing something to stop it, then you are just as guilty as he who does the harm. Wishing for harm to come to others so that a political position is enhanced becomes part of the harm. Turn it around - if 1% of Republicans wanted something that is unfair to others, then why throw out the opinions of the other 99%?
TBone208 wrote: "You ppl are such windbags. Go use your crystal ball to get rich & predict something meaningful. Nobody knows what's going to happen. How are we supposed to take ppl who don't know the definition of a recession & "woman" seriously?"

Merlin The Wrench

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JLT
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Re: Vote!

Post by JLT » Fri Nov 27, 2020 5:10 pm

sgkent wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:18 pm
your logic baffles me. It is from an emotional view, not a logical point. That is the problem using emotions to validate a position. If emotion changes towards something or someone it validates or invalidates the position. My decisions have been based in what I see with my own eyes, not what someone tells me or I read in a politically biased paper.

You're right. I'm just another candy-assed liberal who gets distressed when I see others in pain. I cannot dispassionately regard them as losers. I want to help them to ease their pain and cope with life. I donate to political campaigns and philanthropic causes even although it results in my own impoverishment, slight though it may be, because I believe that that is what civilization is all about. I, too, base my decisions on what I have seen with my own eyes, but I have obviously not seen the things you have seen with yours. My own news sources are from respected publications whose commitment to journalism is so great that hundreds have died in performing it, not some fat guy in a radio station, or some mannequin blonde in a TV studio, who has never taken the trouble to investigate the situation for themselves but is content to read the pages that are handed to them by others who have also not gone through the trouble of checking out the situations in person.
EVERYTHING in life has a cost. Nothing comes free. Life is the ying and yang. One cannot have day without night. One cannot have health without illness, life without death, right without left. One can never make a perfect world. It is impossible. Poverty must exist for there to be wealth, death must exist if there is to be life, happiness for some requires some be sad. For there to be a victor there must be a defeated.
If you believe that life is simply a zero-sum game, that is a perfectly logical statement. I do not believe that life is like that. I will grant you that these opposites do exist, that perfection is unattainable, that the poor we will always have with us, as somebody once said. (He also had some fairly caustic words for those who dismiss those poor.) But I do not hold perfection as the standard by which we are measured, because if we did, everything ... every single thing ... we did would be doomed to failure. I will be be content with "better." Fewer people dying of hunger or war or police brutality, more opportunity for people to live life as they wish without undue interference, better management of our economy and our planet.
As to the rioting question, if you stand by and watch someone hurt someone else without doing something to stop it, then you are just as guilty as he who does the harm.
Would that we were all as fearless and strong as you appear to be! Yes, if some people are breaking a storefront window with a baseball bat, we should all step up and stop these people. But if there are more of them than there are of us, and they are bat-shit crazy, forgive me if I don't throw my body selflessly at them and put my head between their bat and the window.
Wishing for harm to come to others so that a political position is enhanced becomes part of the harm. Turn it around - if 1% of Republicans wanted something that is unfair to others, then why throw out the opinions of the other 99%?
Now it's your logic that's baffling me. I am not wishing harm to come to others, only wishing that they do not do harm to me. And I would be happy not to "throw out the opinions of the other 99%" if they would just speak up and do something about it instead of sitting on their asses and, by doing nothing, enabling the 1% to rule their party.

Gee, this discussion is fun! I sure wish that there were other people chiming in, on either side, to give us reality checks when we need them.
-- JLT
Sacramento CA

Present bus: '71 Dormobile Westie "George"
(sometimes towing a '65 Allstate single-wheel trailer)
Former buses: '61 17-window Deluxe "Pink Bus"
'70 Frankenwestie "Blunder Bus"
'71 Frankenwestie "Thunder Bus"

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sgkent
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Re: Vote!

Post by sgkent » Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:37 pm

JLT - if you were as kind talking to others who differ in opinion with you, as you say you believe in being kind to others we might have a different conversation. Your dislike of those who differ in opinion to you is quite clear. The PA Senate Wednesday saw evidence that 700,000 more ballots were returned than were sent by the state. As a result the State Senate passed a resolution to decertify all the election results in PA. The Assembly takes it up Monday. The courts said that since the Constitution doesn't address fraud in elections they have no say, and dismissed their cases. I guess in the end the emotional state of people will determine where this goes. I am eating popcorn and watching.
TBone208 wrote: "You ppl are such windbags. Go use your crystal ball to get rich & predict something meaningful. Nobody knows what's going to happen. How are we supposed to take ppl who don't know the definition of a recession & "woman" seriously?"

Merlin The Wrench

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JLT
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Re: Vote!

Post by JLT » Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:59 pm

sgkent wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:37 pm
JLT - if you were as kind talking to others who differ in opinion with you, as you say you believe in being kind to others we might have a different conversation. Your dislike of those who differ in opinion to you is quite clear.
I don't dislike you ... hell, I've never met you, to my best knowledge ... but I admit to disliking the political views that some people espouse, including you. The two are not the same. I reserve my personal dislike for people like Donald Trump, Lindsey Graham or Mitch McConnell, who seem to lack the rudiments of a moral compass that can distinguish right from wrong, and who evidently determine what's good and bad based on their political opportunism. This is why you can find statements and tweets by these people, made years apart, that are totally contradictory. I doubt that there was any great moral awakening attached to their changes of heart.

So if I am clear in my disagreement with you, don't take it personally, please. We are both looking for the "more nearly perfect Union" the Constitution mandates in its Preamble, but we see different paths to that goal. I am being as honest as I can be in these matters, and trust that you respect me enough to be equally honest.
The PA Senate Wednesday saw evidence that 700,000 more ballots were returned than were sent by the state.
This is news to me. From what I could see from doing a search on the internet, I could find no mention of that. So I, too, will wait until I hear from some reputable news source (see above) about the case. This figure of 700,000 ballots sounds suspiciously close to the 682,000 ballots that were mailed in and counted last, thereby giving Biden an edge after the first election-night ballot count favored Trump. But we'll get this sorted out by and by.
As a result the State Senate passed a resolution to decertify all the election results in PA.
To be more accurate, the resolution aimed to block the certification not those "phantom votes" but all the votes that were cast by mail, because the President's lawyers claim that those votes were cast in violation of the state's Constitution. That appears to be what the resolution says. (I know, because I read it. You can read it, too, at:
https://www.scribd.com/document/4857972 ... der-Nov-25

I don't know what the results of the hearing were (it was supposed to take place yesterday). As near as I can figure, it's not the Assembly that takes it up, but the courts. But I could be wrong about that. I await the results of the court ruling, and we can take it from there.

Peace.

PS: Colin, are we being out of line in taking our discussion here? Are we stretching the purposes of this forum from what you intended it to be? If so, I'll be glad to shut up and talk about tires instead.
-- JLT
Sacramento CA

Present bus: '71 Dormobile Westie "George"
(sometimes towing a '65 Allstate single-wheel trailer)
Former buses: '61 17-window Deluxe "Pink Bus"
'70 Frankenwestie "Blunder Bus"
'71 Frankenwestie "Thunder Bus"

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sgkent
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Re: Vote!

Post by sgkent » Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:13 pm

you see JLT - while you feel as you do, my personal belief is that the democratic party lacks a moral compass. Think about it. Telling someone to call 911 to report too many people are sitting at a dinner table in their home. Telling someone they can't have a haircut, or they have to wear a mask or be arrested, then walking into a salon no mask and demanding a haircut. Telling someone they can't even eat outdoors in a restaurant and then within hours going to one yourself. The list is endless so I have to question whom it is who lacks the moral compass.

My best two friends in life I recently disowned. Why. They preach but they do not do at all what they say to do. I came to the realization it was always they who preached the values of friendship but they never call unless they want something. They never call and say, "How are you doing," but rather it is me concerned about THEIR welfare. When they say how evil it is that students have so much debt, the next day they protest for more wages and higher benefits as a professor. Who pays those salaries? I am not saying they have no rights, or that they aren't worth more. What I am saying is that everything in life has costs, and if one takes from somewhere that money or benefit has to come from somewhere else. If someone works longer hours to keep their family fed then is it right their family complains and says but you are always at work? If the provider stays home to be with them more is it right they should complain and say, "I want more, you don't provide for me as much as I want." If the answer is that the company should pay more then the cost of goods must go up and then the consumer pays more. If the cost to make the goods goes down due to paying less for supplies then the supplier must find a way to work with less income and lay people off perhaps. What if the company automates to lower the cost of goods to pay workers more? Then there will be less workers because automation will replace them. What if the company increases their market share? Then another company loses market share and that means layoffs at another company. My own personal observation is that the last 4 years many people have let the media and Dems fill them so full of hate they were not able to sit back and really assess what was happening around them. California is Democrat run and has been since 2008. We have more homeless and problems in downtown Sacramento than ever. My other half is working remotely but she has been told by her employer, the state, that should she decide to come in to work she needs to call the police or CHP before she parks early in the morning so they can escort her to the building because her life could be in jeopardy due to the homeless and protestors. I hardly find that this is a problem Donald Trump caused.
TBone208 wrote: "You ppl are such windbags. Go use your crystal ball to get rich & predict something meaningful. Nobody knows what's going to happen. How are we supposed to take ppl who don't know the definition of a recession & "woman" seriously?"

Merlin The Wrench

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JLT
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Re: Vote!

Post by JLT » Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:23 pm

Regarding automation putting people out of work, here's something to think about.

A Ford executive was giving a union representative a tour of a re-tooled factory, with robots replacing many workers. The executive pointed to the robots and said, "Well, how are you going to get those guys to pay union dues?"

The union rep said, "Good question. Now ask yourself this: how are you going to get these guys to buy Fords?"
-- JLT
Sacramento CA

Present bus: '71 Dormobile Westie "George"
(sometimes towing a '65 Allstate single-wheel trailer)
Former buses: '61 17-window Deluxe "Pink Bus"
'70 Frankenwestie "Blunder Bus"
'71 Frankenwestie "Thunder Bus"

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sgkent
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Re: Vote!

Post by sgkent » Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:11 pm

Yes - There is a cost to automation. Think about this - what if the media is only following the guidelines set forth by AI to increase readership, ads and profits? What if AI is used in the voting count, and it determines how to best tally the votes. Think about people out of work, and attempts to curtail H1B Visas used to replace American workers, then know this - "CHICAGO — A federal judge on Tuesday struck down two Trump administration rules designed to drastically curtail the number of visas issued each year to skilled foreign workers." So the courts believe what - it is good for American businesses to bring in foreign labor in order to keep American labor costs down? What - it was the Trump admin standing up for the American worker - that must be a misprint.
TBone208 wrote: "You ppl are such windbags. Go use your crystal ball to get rich & predict something meaningful. Nobody knows what's going to happen. How are we supposed to take ppl who don't know the definition of a recession & "woman" seriously?"

Merlin The Wrench

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tommu
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Re: Vote!

Post by tommu » Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:25 pm

sgkent wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:45 pm
sgkent wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:42 pm
tommu wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:44 pm
Small problem we have with Mr Trump (amongst other concerns) is that he is a racist white supremicist. Pretty hard to vote for one of those isn’t it?

Still here Colin - see you sometime soon..
So let me ask a question Tom - a man is asked - if you had one gallon of milk, and the neighbor's children were starving, would you give it to them knowing it would mean your own children would starve to death? There is only a yes or no answer available - it is the ONLY gallon of milk available. If he says no then he is a butcher who is selfish, and if he says yes then he is an awful father who would let his own children starve. If he says, yes but I would hope for more then he believes in unicorns because that was not an option. My father, his brothers, and cousins who would be DEEPLY opposed to your position, risked their lives so you could remain English and free. Ray didn't make it, he was torpedoed off England delivering food so that your ancestors would have something to eat.

You call them racist because it is the herd thing to do. Personally with all the liberal violence and BS that has been directed at conservatives, like your post, I see only one way left for America to resolve these differences, and that is another bloody Civil War. But it will not be our first, it will be our third. I hope you and your family survive it. Know that it is of your side's fabrication, but you may not be able to look in the mirror and see that. My family survived the first two, and if one includes the war between Native Americans and Colonials we survived that one too, because I also have Plains and Cherokee ancestors. Your choice to call Donald Trump a racist is to call me a racist too because I support his concern of returning jobs and wealth to the people who live in this country already. Remember, he asked Congress for a permanent resolution to DACA, but your side and Nancy laughed at him. Who is the racist?
Steve - I am calling Trump a racist and a white supremacist because he is a racist and white supremacist. Do you understand that point?

Abscate
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Re: Vote!

Post by Abscate » Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:49 am

Poverty must exist for there to be wealth,
Fundamentally flawed thinking, which is prevalent on both political sides.

72Hardtop
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Re: Vote!

Post by 72Hardtop » Sun Mar 06, 2022 7:25 am

Did that in November. It included sealing the fate of many on the left from office. Will do it again on the next round.
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72Hardtop
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Re: Vote!

Post by 72Hardtop » Sun Mar 06, 2022 7:29 am

tommu wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:25 pm
sgkent wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:45 pm
sgkent wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:42 pm
tommu wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:44 pm
Small problem we have with Mr Trump (amongst other concerns) is that he is a racist white supremicist. Pretty hard to vote for one of those isn’t it?

Still here Colin - see you sometime soon..
So let me ask a question Tom - a man is asked - if you had one gallon of milk, and the neighbor's children were starving, would you give it to them knowing it would mean your own children would starve to death? There is only a yes or no answer available - it is the ONLY gallon of milk available. If he says no then he is a butcher who is selfish, and if he says yes then he is an awful father who would let his own children starve. If he says, yes but I would hope for more then he believes in unicorns because that was not an option. My father, his brothers, and cousins who would be DEEPLY opposed to your position, risked their lives so you could remain English and free. Ray didn't make it, he was torpedoed off England delivering food so that your ancestors would have something to eat.

You call them racist because it is the herd thing to do. Personally with all the liberal violence and BS that has been directed at conservatives, like your post, I see only one way left for America to resolve these differences, and that is another bloody Civil War. But it will not be our first, it will be our third. I hope you and your family survive it. Know that it is of your side's fabrication, but you may not be able to look in the mirror and see that. My family survived the first two, and if one includes the war between Native Americans and Colonials we survived that one too, because I also have Plains and Cherokee ancestors. Your choice to call Donald Trump a racist is to call me a racist too because I support his concern of returning jobs and wealth to the people who live in this country already. Remember, he asked Congress for a permanent resolution to DACA, but your side and Nancy laughed at him. Who is the racist?
Steve - I am calling Trump a racist and a white supremacist because he is a racist and white supremacist. Do you understand that point?
Explains why he has many close friends who are folks of color. LOL! Isaac Newton Farris Jr. and Alveda King, Dr. King’s nephew and niece, respectively, asserted in interviews that Trump is not a racist.
1972 Westy tintop
2056cc T-4 - 7.8:1 CR
Weber 40mm Duals - 47.5idles, 125mains, F11 tubes, 190 Air corr., 28mm Vents
96mm AA Biral P/C's w/Hastings rings
42x36mm Heads (AMC- Headflow Masters) w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
Web Cam 73 w/matched Web lifters
S&S 4-1 exhaust w/Walker 17862 quiet-pack
Pertronix SVDA w/Pertronix module & Flamethrower 40K coil (7* initial 28* total @3200+)
NGK BP6ET plugs
002 3 rib trans
Hankook 185R14's

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Amskeptic
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Re: Vote!

Post by Amskeptic » Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:50 am

Anybody watching the January 6th Commission hearings? They are smarter than they look. So far, all of the evidence shared is coming right out of the mouths of those involved. No egotistical committee members frothing in a narcissistic vomit of their own words ...
We should look up through this thread and catch some of the earlier comments and you know, adjust.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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JLT
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Re: Vote!

Post by JLT » Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:35 am

Amskeptic wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:50 am
Anybody watching the January 6th Commission hearings?
I've been following them. A procession of people who were about to overthrow a valid, legitimate election and didn't feel bad at all about it. People who broke the law, while others watched them break the law without notifying anybody.

People who asked for pardons in advance for crimes they knew they'd performed but who weren't sure how much anybody else knew.

A quarter of a billion dollars donated to a phony "Save The Election" campaign, which ended up lining the pockets of Trump and his buddies and his businesses.

I'm angry. I'm sure others are, too. The question is: how angry will we be come Election Day?
-- JLT
Sacramento CA

Present bus: '71 Dormobile Westie "George"
(sometimes towing a '65 Allstate single-wheel trailer)
Former buses: '61 17-window Deluxe "Pink Bus"
'70 Frankenwestie "Blunder Bus"
'71 Frankenwestie "Thunder Bus"

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sgkent
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Re: Vote!

Post by sgkent » Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:07 pm

Whether science, law, or government we must first gather facts in an unbiased as possible way, then we discuss and cross examine the facts. Even in science, in the 1980's the new laws of chaos showed that we must look outside our comfort zone for facts. Material facts may be so diverse and far away from what we are looking at, that we would not otherwise consider them. Next we must thoroughly cross examine these facts, whether in science, law, or government. In the case of Jan 6, if the Dems were serious they would not have thrown all the GOP members out, including the ranking member because they feared cross-examination. That is if we are after the truth. If we are just trying to spin our side of the argument, and care nothing about the truth, then the committee is right on for their method. Remember, the Butterfly Effect is real when one considers the laws of chaos. Making a conclusion, then selecting only those who will lead to that conclusion is a sign of weakness, not strength. Strength is discovering the truth, then working with it to make a better environment for ourselves and those who follow us.
TBone208 wrote: "You ppl are such windbags. Go use your crystal ball to get rich & predict something meaningful. Nobody knows what's going to happen. How are we supposed to take ppl who don't know the definition of a recession & "woman" seriously?"

Merlin The Wrench

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Amskeptic
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Re: Vote!

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:56 pm

sgkent wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:07 pm
In the case of Jan 6, if the Dems were serious they would not have thrown all the GOP members out, including the ranking member because they feared cross-examination.
Nancy Pelosi demanded that Jim Jordan and Jim Banks not be allowed on the committee, because they were *material witnesses.*

Kevin McCarthy then pulled all of the rest of them off the committee. He wanted to have a trump card where he could say it was now a partisan committee. Well, Pelosi found Adam Kizinger and Liz Cheney so the committee is not actually partisan.

Trump is now deeply furious with McCarthy, because he lost those loudmouth performative hyenas who could have obfuscated and thrown sand in the works. Instead, Liz and Adam are showing focused, disciplined, and effective skill.
Colin
BobD - 78 Bus . . . 112,730 miles
Chloe - 70 bus . . . 217,593 miles
Naranja - 77 Westy . . . 142,970 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . . 55,600 miles
Alexus - 91 Lexus LS400 . . . 96,675 miles

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