We can not be Ostriches...

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TrollFromDownBelow
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We can not be Ostriches...

Post by TrollFromDownBelow » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:35 pm

I am a political and community activist neophyte .... nay.... I'm more like a larvae. I've spent much of my adult energy on my career, and have been very, very fortunate to have found a life partner to enjoy all the other aspects in life. But after this election, I really feel the need to get engaged in a meaningful way in either making my community better, or, making an impact on our political machinations.

So, I am reaching out to this community, which I know has much experience in community and political involvement; how does one get started? Or even simpler, how did YOU get started? Would be very interested in folks who, like myself, have the limitations of having a career, and a family. What can be done to have the most impact with the time and resources that we have?

Would love to hear any inspirational stories, anectdotes, etc. Anything to provide a starting point for either myself, or anyother "armchair" politicion or community activist.

Cheers,
Mike
1976 VW Bus aka tripod
FI ...8 completely solid lifters.... now it's both kinda noisy and leaky, but she sure runs good!
hambone wrote: There are those out there with no other aim but to bunch panties. It's like arguing with a pretzel.
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Amskeptic
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Re: We can not be Ostriches...

Post by Amskeptic » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:00 am

TrollFromDownBelow wrote:I am a political and community activist neophyte .... nay.... I'm more like a larvae. I've spent much of my adult energy on my career, and have been very, very fortunate to have found a life partner to enjoy all the other aspects in life. But after this election, I really feel the need to get engaged in a meaningful way in either making my community better, or, making an impact on our political machinations.

So, I am reaching out to this community, which I know has much experience in community and political involvement; how does one get started? Or even simpler, how did YOU get started? Would be very interested in folks who, like myself, have the limitations of having a career, and a family. What can be done to have the most impact with the time and resources that we have?

Would love to hear any inspirational stories, anectdotes, etc. Anything to provide a starting point for either myself, or anyother "armchair" politicion or community activist.

Cheers,
Mike

I will be joining you in this pursuit. I actually do love this country too much to watch this unfold without trying to help repair the situation.

Much of the alienation that this election exposed played out here in Free Speech over the past several years. My fatal error was trying to apply rational arguments to people who were not much disposed to rational arguments. Then I reacted with butt-hurt disdain, and off to the races we went.

In a localized metaphor nutshell, this election turned away from the class valedictorian and chose the buffoon. What forces are in our socialization where we sneer at intellectuals who do their homework, and choose the playground bully? I remember being alienated in high school, I remember my generalized anger and feelings of being lost in the elite corridors of high achievement. I remember developing a hatred of those held in high esteem by a school administration that had ignored and walked over us more emotionally damaged students.

This is our job as a nation, to assimilate all of us. We The People have to rein in the business class which, in the school analogy, is that group of students who had rich parents that gave them every advantage and became ruthless bullies. I had a Mitt Romney in my class.

I want to join the rational groups like Change.org or MoveOn, and hammer them in their sanctimony. We need to make the class valedictorian one of us. We need to call out the capitalist elites who hide like snakes behind a veneer of populism and shame them, not as sanctimonious little liberals in possession of the Truth, but as human beings who are damn sick and tired of being lied to.

Will have more to say after I visit my northeast liberal elistes over the coming days.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 94,615 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,990 miles

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jimbear
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Re: We can not be Ostriches...

Post by jimbear » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:16 pm

My plan is to bombard my senators and congressmen with comments and let them know how I feel (and fear) every time something Trump says or does something stupid, especially with these back-butt-wards cabinet appointments--I have all three of mine on speed dial and have called them more than I have called my mom since the election. I am also sending the contact info for my reps to all my relevant contacts. One tool in the arsenal. :angryfire:
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tommu
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Re: We can not be Ostriches...

Post by tommu » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:47 pm

I just started donating to the ACLU. The idea that people bought here as infants would be deported or that families should be torn apart is terrifying. ACLU have volunteering opportunities. Maybe look for a charity or civil society that you want to het involved with?

I'm not a citizen of this country so had no vote. Taxation without Representation sucks.. But I need to be careful, like most who aren't fully fledged citizens. One misdemeanor and I can be deported. Direct action is not an option for me! We can speak up though, especially outside of our echo chambers.

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Amskeptic
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Re: We can not be Ostriches...

Post by Amskeptic » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:22 am

tommu wrote:We can speak up though, especially outside of our echo chambers.
Yes, and this is where I am practising and developing a conversational method that allows me to get past the surface arguments that describe our tribal loyalties and boundaries.

I am writing people in the media, starting with the New York Times and Washington Post, asking their opinion writers if they truly discern the importance of our 4th Estate and telling truth to power, versus the more insular requirements to keep their editors and bosses happy. So far, it looks like they are just spewing the same ol' gossipy click bait.

More to come . . .
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 94,615 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,990 miles

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MountainPrana
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Re: We can not be Ostriches...

Post by MountainPrana » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:49 pm

Following this discussion with a hope to gain some ideas as well. Communication is often not something I excel at and often feel bulldozed not being able to access key details at seemingly critical times. I'm on the slow trac with political involvement but can't let go of a vague nagging to be involved.
Thank you for having these public conversations and providing a spring board for learning.
Tim
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The more I learn, the more I see the corners that lead to where I don't know and the more curious I become.

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Amskeptic
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Re: We can not be Ostriches...

Post by Amskeptic » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:07 am

MountainPrana wrote:Following this discussion with a hope to gain some ideas as well. Communication is often not something I excel at and often feel bulldozed not being able to access key details at seemingly critical times. I'm on the slow trac with political involvement but can't let go of a vague nagging to be involved.
Thank you for having these public conversations and providing a spring board for learning.
Tim
We saw our republican Congress defy the Constitutional requirement to advise and consent to the President's nominee for the Supreme Court. They not only were not censured, they were rewarded at the ballot box. This emboldens those who cheat and lie. We are doing it to ourselves in our ignorant apathy.

Today, the republican North Carolina Legislature is in special session to strip the incoming Democratic governor of his executive powers.
They have a filibuster-proof majority. Now this is proof-positive of the naked grasp for power. It is obvious and it is staring at North Carolina voters, "whaddyagonnaDOabout it?"

It is about participation, folks. And it looks like we do need to take the streets to protest.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 94,615 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,990 miles

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Spezialist
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Re: We can not be Ostriches...

Post by Spezialist » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:06 pm

take it for what it worth,
we are in for a ride that we asked for, we wanted our relations to ease with Russia. Well now, we may become very best buds with Russia. I'm quite sure the other super power would rather continue a healthy relationship with us.
everyone else in the world is just going to have to kiss our ass, I say that last statement with only the deepest darkest sarcasm of my peeps.
I didn't like the racist crap, nor the alt shit, but I don't think thats where we are going, anymore than we have always have had it.
Time will tell, my crystal ball sold on efay for 9.99
You probably live on stolen land, in a fake country with zero consciousness. All the while perpetually committing genocide against the native people blissfully living a consumerist culture wondering why mass shootings occur.

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tommu
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Re: We can not be Ostriches...

Post by tommu » Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:46 pm

Who wanted relations to ease with Russia? I don't recall that being a reason for people to vote for this tweeting fool..

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Re: We can not be Ostriches...

Post by kreemoweet » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:02 am

Amskeptic wrote: We saw our republican Congress defy the Constitutional requirement to advise and consent to the President's nominee for the Supreme Court.
Actually, what we saw was our Democratic President defy the Constitutional requirement to consult with the Senate, and nominate a candidate
to fill the Court vacancy who would be acceptable to that same body. The President's arrogance was quite rightly met with inaction by the Senate, said
inaction being a perfectly valid means of withholding consent. Or does the word "consent" have some peculiar leftist interpretation which must
always be used when interpreting political actions?
Amskeptic wrote: . . . North Carolina Legislature . . . is proof-positive of the naked grasp for power.
So, political actions more to your liking are somehow something other than that? No, Sir. That is what ALL politics is, no matter
who prevails. The N.C. Legislature presumably has the power granted it by the N.C Constitution to make the laws it has. As such, it is perfectly
legitimate for that Legislature to exercise that power. It's generally held that the legislative branches of government are the Voice of the People, so if The People wish, they can make other arrangements come next elections. This is how democratic and orderly government works, and to suggest otherwise is pure partisan flim-flam.

I see the election of our dangerous fool as a likely a reaction to years of uncongenial policies being forced down the throats of the
electorate by leftist power-graspers, and especially by politically-motivated judicial activists. That is unfortunate, but as the saying goes: "Turn
about is fair play!"

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Re: We can not be Ostriches...

Post by Amskeptic » Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:02 pm

kreemoweet wrote:
Amskeptic wrote: We saw our republican Congress defy the Constitutional requirement to advise and consent to the President's nominee for the Supreme Court.
Actually, what we saw was our Democratic President defy the Constitutional requirement to consult with the Senate, and nominate a candidate to fill the Court vacancy who would be acceptable to that same body.
You do understand that the President has the Constitution right to make his selection BEFORE the Congress can advise and consent to the choice that the President has made, right? You seem to be saying that Obama should not have made his selection of Merrick Garland before asking the Congress if it was OK?

In the history of this Republic, no highly-qualified nominee has been refused consideration. Garland was refused consideration even though he had a sterling reputation. He could have been voted up. He could have been voted down. But no. He was not even considered.
kreemoweet wrote: The President's arrogance was quite rightly met with inaction by the Senate,
WHAT exactly was Obama's "arrogance"? Spell it out for me. Choose your words carefully, because we all sure have heard a bucketload of that "arrogance" thing in the past eight years.
kreemoweet wrote: inaction being a perfectly valid means of withholding consent. Or does the word "consent" have some peculiar leftist interpretation which must always be used when interpreting political actions?
Hold on, hold on. You are absolutely not going to catch me with any "peculiar leftist interpretation" of the word consent. let's look at our Nation's history and past precedents before you decide to call inaction a valid means of withholding consent to a nomination that never even made it into the record.
It was obstruction. It stalled the process dead.
There is NO fancy rationalization to call that a valid exercise of congressional advice. Garland was not even considered. There was no discussion of his qualifications or beliefs or jurisprudence. None.
kreemoweet wrote:
Amskeptic wrote: . . . North Carolina Legislature . . . is proof-positive of the naked grasp for power.
So, political actions more to your liking are somehow something other than that? No, Sir. That is what ALL politics is, no matter who prevails. The N.C. Legislature presumably has the power granted it by the N.C Constitution to make the laws it has. It's generally held that the legislative branches of government are the Voice of the People,
What is generally held, is unraveling by the day. North Carolina's voter disenfranchisement efforts (which have landed in the courts time and again) are destabilizing the consent of the governed. That is why every government in history has been eventually overthrown. The NC Legislature is no more the voice of the people than the United States Congress is when they DEFY the Will of the People time and time again. For example, more people want common sense gun control laws than don't. This has been true for decades. Why don't we have common sense gun control laws? You know and I know.
kreemoweet wrote: I see the election of our dangerous fool as a likely a reaction to years of uncongenial policies being forced down the throats of the electorate by leftist power-graspers, and especially by politically-motivated judicial activists.
You actually want to go on-record here and blame "leftist power graspers" as the cause of the Trump debacle because the left was uncongenial? Were you at Trump rallies? Did you see South Carolina's Joe Wilson yell out at President Obama's State of the Union Address, "you LIE!"? Did you see Mr. Congeniality Himself, Mitch McConnell promise to thwart Obama at every turn the day after he was elected? You think Trump declaring that Obama was not born in this country for five years was NOT uncongenial?

Seriously, the left is composed of inclusive people who have not maintained dossiers on nor assassinated opposition leaders like Presidents, attorney generals or civil rights giants, who want opportunities for all Americans without prejudice against their race, sexual orientation, or ethnic roots. They have not held the budget hostage to selfish demands to limit Americans their choices in a doctor's office, they have never tried to prevent large groups of people from voting, and I will not hear of your fanciful stretch that leftists were a "cause" of the whitelash, as Van Jones put it.
If you would like a discussion of "judicial activists" I would be more than happy to start with Roberts and Scalia and Citizen's United.
Colin
BobD - 1978 Bus . . . . . . . . . . .111,130 miles
Chloe - 1970 bus . . . . . . . . . . . 206,787 miles
Naranja - 1977 Westfalia . . . . . 94,615 miles
Pluck - 1973 Squareback . . . . . 55,510 miles
Alexus - 1991 Lexus LS400 . . . 72,990 miles

TrollFromDownBelow
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Re: We can not be Ostriches...

Post by TrollFromDownBelow » Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:06 pm

ok folks ... pump those brakes....pump them hard. I started this thread, to find out how we can make an impact OUTSIDE of our insular group to make a difference. Discussing among ourselves about past and current political events DOES have value...but now, more than ever, we have to take that value and turn it outwards .... to influence others.

The past is the past .... this is one of the moments where we have to rip off the rearview mirror and only look forward, and sideways at the present. I was (and maybe still am....at least for the first 6 months when he is in office) to give trump the benefit of the doubt. But, he has proven again no self control (really.... he tweeted about a bad review of one of his restaurants recently..... like THAT is really important in the grand scheme of things) , and his 'anti-cabinet' (not my words, but feel it is appropriate) nominees has me very, very, concerned.

So to go back to the original intent of this thread, I am a political and activist larvae ... what are your anecdotes of how you got involved and were able to CHANGE things? The examples can be from 20,30, 40 years ago, or can be as recently as last week. Would like to see some inspirational stories (from either side of the aisle) of how you got involved, and that involvement made a difference.

And I request that we all be respectful....I know this audience is mostly liberal leaning, but if someone has a good example, of say, how they shut down a local abortion clinic, because they are right to lifers, lets not attack them for their beliefs - the important thing here is how we can ALL learn about the PROCESS of getting involved.

Tell us a good story of political, or community involvement that made a difference.... my wish/hope is that it will inspire folks like myself, give us ideas, of how we too can make a difference.


Cheers,
Mike
1976 VW Bus aka tripod
FI ...8 completely solid lifters.... now it's both kinda noisy and leaky, but she sure runs good!
hambone wrote: There are those out there with no other aim but to bunch panties. It's like arguing with a pretzel.
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tommu
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Re: We can not be Ostriches...

Post by tommu » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:19 pm

TrollFromDownBelow wrote:I am a political and activist larvae
I humbly suggest you get involved in some political discourse in that case - as that is what you are experiencing on this thread.

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JLT
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Re: We can not be Ostriches...

Post by JLT » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:30 pm

First, educate yourself. Find people on both sides of the issue, and hear what they have to say. Figure out where concern ends and fear starts. Learn to tell the difference between real news and fake news, and try to teach others how to tell the difference. (Hint: check sources and apply simple rules of logic.) In particular, find areas of agreement, and work out from there.

Second, put your body on the line, as much as you can. Go to civic meetings, pass out leaflets, show up for demonstrations. Try not to be ignored. Let your representatives know that you are watching them, and that you vote.

Third, do all you can to convince Republicans that their party has deserted them, and offer them alternatives. It won't be easy; as Mark Twain observed, "It is easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." But we've got to do it. Same for those Democrats who have forgotten who their power base was. Because as long as the Republicans are in power, nothing will change for the better, except for the one tenth of one percent. Nothing.
-- JLT
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Former buses: '61 17-window Deluxe "Pink Bus"
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TrollFromDownBelow
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Re: We can not be Ostriches...

Post by TrollFromDownBelow » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:58 pm

I appreciate the thoughts - and admit, that I do have a lot to learn. And have learned a lot here, on this site. But how do you multiply it? We've got, what .... I'm guessing 40-60 active posters? I can improve my knowledge and hone my debating skills here, but my circle of influence here, is only 40-60 people. How do we go 'out in the field' so to speak, and really make the effort count?

Not looking for a 10 step process, but think it would be cool if folks would share their stories of how they marched for something, or how they volunteered for a political campaign, or how they got involved in a cause. What inspired you to get involved? What did you feel after you got involved? Did you feel that you accomplished something? How long did you stay involved? Think it would be cool if we could create a repository of these inspirational experiences as it could inspire others to do the same.

As for myself, yes, I consider myself a neophyte....but am not oblivious :flower: I am at the bottom of the pack as far as this audience is concerned, but would consider myself more politically astute than 50% of most Americans (yeah, I know, that's a pretty low bar).

My point is, instead of having this post evolve into one where people are defending their political beliefs, I would like to see it become an inspiration where people took their beliefs (what ever they are) and put action behind it ... made a difference - made an impact.

EDIT:

Reading my morning news this morning.....anyone out there participate in something like this? If so, how did you get involved, what was the outcome?

http://www.npr.org/2016/12/21/506299560 ... ut-will-it

Cheers,
Mike
1976 VW Bus aka tripod
FI ...8 completely solid lifters.... now it's both kinda noisy and leaky, but she sure runs good!
hambone wrote: There are those out there with no other aim but to bunch panties. It's like arguing with a pretzel.
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