JonBenet Ramsey Case

[Amskeptic]

Jeez, parents will raise their kids to be like them. Old man Ramsey, had a ton of money and he married a beauty queen, the perks of doing well. They had a girl and they made her a beauty contestant, this is what the parents knew and respected, who are we to judge. The worship of 35 year old foreign cars is just as stupid.

Well. . . . parents can look and discover that their children are like them without trying to do a damn carbon-copy of themselves, that's narcissistic nonsense that has kept many a psychiatrist well paid.

Money? Perks? What does that have to do with raising your child to discover who they themselves might be? Money? Perks? Is that the Entitlement Thing that figures so richly in the behavior and assumptions of the well-heeled? "That'll give the wife something to DO, let her parade the kid around, I'm busy."

I judge. Sometimes I even mean to. The "worship" of a 35 year-old car that gave me a flawless run to Minnesota after suffering the slings and potholes of Chicago traffic is not really worship, it is a dynamic appreciation of something that works.

The worship of ephemeral images courtesy of your tarted-up daughter have nothing to do with the appreciation of who she is. It is using her to fulfill questionable longings and it represents WHAT RELEVANT thing to HER life? Not a damn thing. Unless you want her to think that pretty is all that matters.

I'm not saying that having grandma gush over your daughter in her Easter dress is bad, not at all, but to hijack your daughter's childhood to recreate or fulfill your own unrequited dreams, screw that. People could try to bring children into the world just to meet these new creatures and maybe even learn something from them instead of recreating a "chip off the old block". JonBenet surely does not have a chance to teach her parents anything, and maybe never did, that poor little chip. A money-drenched household only makes for a more difficult time for any child to break free of the stifling smugness that comes with material success. Perks. Doing well. How sharp is the blade of "success."
Colin

[spiffy]

I'm not saying that having grandma gush over your daughter in her Easter dress is bad, not at all, but to hijack your daughter's childhood to recreate or fulfill your own unrequited dreams, screw that.

Exactly, plus there are enough societal pressures (image related) on a child these days that I think (IMHO) that parents should let a child find their own self image and importance and support them along the way. Instilling good manners and values (not necesarilly religious values) along with a sense of personal worth and accomplishment are a good foundation for that young life to build apon.

[chitwnvw]

Well. . . . parents can

I stop you here because you used the word 'can'. Yes they could, but the rich are notoriously self centered. They tend to view others as accessories of their fabulous lives. Yes, they "can" be different, but from what I've observed, usually aren't.

The "worship" of a 35 year-old car that gave me a flawless run to Minnesota after suffering the slings and potholes of Chicago traffic is not really worship, it is a dynamic appreciation of something that works.

Based on my 1980 Civic that, well, I did nothing for that car and the body basically fell from it, while the engine kept going, that thing was like Rasputin; I think the Germans sit behind the Japanese in terms of suffering and reliabilitly. (PS: For a guy who lived in LA you sure were scarred by Chicago traffic, sorry...I got a spare room and ways around the interstates... please come back!)

...but to hijack your daughter's childhood to recreate or fulfill your own unrequited dreams

Yes, slam dunk, this is wrong. Step back though, we make assumptions about right and wrong. Putting pressure on her to be in beauty contests is bad, but to reward her doing well at reading is good. The mom knew what got her to her station in society, and she was probably trying to pass that on to the daughter. Is this any worse or better that Tiger Woods and his fathers love for golf?

How sharp is the blade of "success."

You are an unadulterated idealist. We need those, so god bless you. But I have a daughter who'd love to be blistering the beauty queen circuit, and god knows we are not that sort of people. These little creatures are who they are. You water them and let them grow, and they become whomever they were meant to be. I think the possibilities to mess them up is unlimited. Parenting is mostly, stuffing food in their mouths, and staying out of the way...

[LiveonJG]

You are an unadulterated idealist.
Parenting is mostly, stuffing food in their mouths, and staying out of the way...

Looks like that idealism is catchy. Parenting is a bit more involved than feeding. Mostly, it's about teaching. Children absorb their experiences and those same experiences ultimately define who they become as an adult. Parents have an enormous influence and responsibility. It pisses me off to no end to see some of the choices parents make. Trust me, I in no way feel that I am a perfect parent, sometimes I feel like the shittiest, but raising kids really boils down to common sense. Me: "You know, you probably shouldn't have brought your 3 year old to see King Kong. It is rated PG13 and I hear it's pretty violent and scary." Dumbass Parent: "You don't know me! Don't tell me how to raise my kids!" That kid might not get frightened during the movie, I can't say. I still feel sorry for him. He'll either have some very vivid images in his head for quite some time or he's seen so much already that it won't phase him at all. Neither is a place any kid should be put into. Mark Karr's life has brought him to where he is right now. As Colin pointed out, it is but a wasted life. I have no idea what type of parents he had. Maybe they were great, maybe they weren't. You are right chitwnvw, these little creatures are who they are. But without the love, support and guidance of their families, they're far more likely to turn out like Mark Karr. This is, I believe, what Colin meant by using the word "can". Parent's can make a difference. It could be that a kid is predisposed to commit acts of violence or end up as a total headcase, like Mark Karr. Your job as a parent is to do what you can to prevent that from being what defines that kid as an adult. Come on, staying out of the way? You're not the type that lets them run around the restaurant are you?
-John

[Amskeptic]

So Karr is the little attention-getting sadsack after all. Look no further than his early childhood, makes sense after all.
Colin

[chitwnvw]

You are right chitwnvw, these little creatures are who they are. But without the love, support and guidance of their families, they're far more likely to turn out like Mark Karr.

'Tis true, positive things in a childs life can help them, I figure, and this isn't based on much, but that you have 10 to 25 percent influence in a positive way. By this I mean, they see you reading and they become readers, or they see you value learning and they become voracious students.

Now if you beat, rape and mentally abuse your children, you get a lot more bang for your buck. I'd say your chances of creating a real f**d up nutcase are in the 80 percent and up bracket. Actually the nutcase part has to be near 100 %. I think LiveonJG hints at a different type of abuse, that of neglect. There's nothing like being brought into this world to be told, in not so many words, that you are nothing, no on cares about you or what happens to you. I think that a child, at this point seek out what it needs, which is where abuse, or something positive happen. I read an excellent book, true, about some kids raised in some crazy conditions, "The Glass Castle"

http://www.amazon.com/Glass-Castle-A-Me ... F8&s=books

Hence my feed them and stay out of the way statement. Of course some hugs and time spent passing on what you think is important is also wise. It's also the fun part of being a parent, since most of the rest of my duties seem to be writing checks and driving people from place to place.

Peace. Especially to whomever killed that little girl, and to crazy people who feel they have to fess up to it.