The Ron Paul Thread

[Amskeptic]

Nah, Folks tend to harp on the defense budget (yeah its large but MOST of it just like any othe business goes to pay for salaries of the employees, that OMA (operations and Maintenance) appropriation is what pays my salary. Anywho, back to the point, you can harp on the defense budget all you want but the mandatory spending side of the house is what the GOV HAS to pay and it is skyrocketing.

I am a harper. Don't be crying in my cornflakes about mandatory social spending when half the damn mandatory spending is to go to rigged contracts with the pharmaceuticals who lobbied for no competition drug pricing, rigged contracts with nursing homes across the land.

The Social Security Fund is supposed to be free-standing, yet it is raided for subsidies to rich agribusiness and people are hurtling towards retirement insovency but SS premiums stop above $97,000.00 income? What is going on?

How many times do we have to prove that childhood programs are an easy and powerful investment with real returns, yet these friggen self-centered myopic stingy nitwits refuse to invest because they are afraid of the "nanny state". . . yet they happily allow Uncle Sam to invest in their price supported industries.

Our military spending on weapons programs like the Osprey and a few other boondoggles is obscene and asinine, don't even tell me that they put people to work. It has been proven that if you cancelled a few stupid coldwar jet fighter/aircraft carrier star wars missile shield programs and threw it into the minimum wage and PUBLIC EDUCATION we would have a far greater prime effect to the economy. I am sorry spiffy, it is very very clear to me that the rats are escaping the ship and stuffing their pockets with as much cheese as they can.
Colin

[DjEep]

Finally got around to slogging through this thread...

I don't believe the bullshit excuse about being a product of your environment.

I'm calling shenaniggans... You are. It's why we send kids to school. You learn what life teaches you. It's also why you want a President that doesn't lie to grand juries, correct?

My wife has an aunt who is the poster child for this. In the eight years I've known her, she's never had a job. Doesn't really look for one - gets welfare. Has three nearly grown kids (oldest is 29, youngest is 17) who don't have a job, and are in and out of prison. Smokes a ton of cigarettes, buys junk food, pop, etc. Mooches money off of her 85 year old mother. Constantly is facing one sort of legal issue after another (evicted from house for not cleaning up junk from front yard, one kid goes to jail for battery against his brother with a baseball bat after arguing about the TV, trespassing on private property looking for scrap metal to sell, drugs, theft, etc.). Now, I feel somewhat bad for these kids, because they have tried to find jobs (rarely), but no one will hire them because they've been in prison. They try a couple of places and give up. It's a bad situation all around. But, the mom doesn't try to look for work. So, the example she has set for the kids is you don't need to work, grandma or the gov't will gve you money when you need it.

So, the kids only knew welfare, drugs and stealing.... Take away welfare and you have drugs and stealing. I'll take a couple deadbeats over a couple criminals anyday. It costs less to keep a kid on welfare than to keep him in prison.

I used to work as a checker and bagger in a grocery store. We were a "full service" store, so we would help load the groceries in the customer's car. I would see people come through and pay with food stamps or WIC. Then I would help load the groceries into their cars. Almost always it was a very nice, new or nearly new car.

I'm calling shenaniggans again. I don't doubt the story of the fancy car drivin' food stampers, just the qualifier "almost always." I've known people on food stamps, I've seen lots of people use food stamps. They didn't all have Beamers. I'm sure you just remember those instances most vividly because of the curious nature of the situation.

A lot of what I think people see as welfare "abuse" is more like drug "abuse." It's really the other way around. People, by nature, are often too proud to say "I suck at communication, so it's hard to hold a job" or whatever, so they say "Yeah, I'm just moochin' off uncle sam." While there life twitters away, and they feel a little more sorry for themselves everyday.

Either that or they are just slimeballs who would be ripping everyone off in a different way if they had to, as is the nature of slimeballs. See above.

But again, a slimeball is just the product of it's environment. Ain't life quaint?

Not to pick on ya Quad, just caught my attention...

[chitwnvw]

Nah, I used to work as a Budget Analyst for the Army and now as a Management Analyst.

I guess if your paycheck is coming out of the 400 Billion, Spif, then it's ok. What the hell make it 500 Billion! Wait, we're almost there :<. (Not including the 80 Billion for Iraq and Afghanistan.)

I really don't care what they are spending all that money on, overall it's just too much money!

I think it's sad that this country has a huge agricultural base, tons of mineral and energy resources, we have so many resources, and yet it's not enough. So we have bases all over this globe so that we can secure all the shit that we need to keep up this crazy lifestyle, so we can all live in McMansions and drive McSUVs. It's gross and it's costing us all a lot of money, on top of which it causes all sorts of misery and trouble to people in other parts of the globe.

Could you learn anything, Spiff? Sounds like your minds already made up that you know it all.

[Amskeptic]

So, the kids only knew welfare, drugs and stealing....
Take away welfare and you have drugs and stealing.

=D>

A lot of what I think people see as welfare "abuse" is more like drug "abuse."

=D>

Either that or they are just slimeballs who would be ripping everyone off in a different way if they had to, as is the nature of slimeballs. See above.

Good point. Rip-offs exist in every social stratum.
The ones at the bottom get a few extra food items. The ones at the top steal billions of dollars (S&L in the 80s, Enron& Energy "gamers" end of 90's) that could feed every hungry child in the U.S and give them healthcare.

But again, a slimeball is just the product of it's environment. Ain't life quaint?

=D> =D>

[spiffy]

Ya'll have very vaild points and you are making it damn hard for me to play the devils advocate.

What I was trying to do but I didn't get around to it was to try to point some of the blame towards not just the elected officials (yes I was going somewhere ) but to the hired government employee. You guys should see some of the morons around me that collect a paycheck (most of them larger then mine). So take this dead wood that is in charge of a contracting office and voila....contracts that have more loopholes and options then the walmart return policy. If you want to capture the nature of most gov employees look into the AFGE's fight against NSPS (Rumsfeld's little 'project').

If you REALLY want to get pissed about executive branch spending check out the PART assesment tool. And query the number of programs that are considered by the GAO and OMB to be absolutley worhtless...I think it is something like 22% of government programs IIRC.

And no chitwnvw, I don't even want to pretend like I know it all but I do know that I would never cut anyone short on a thought or say "blah de blah blah blah" to a comment. I hope to meet each and every one of you at some point, wouldn't it be STOOPID to let a little typed out conversation get in the way of that? In other words, keep it civil.

[chitwnvw]

And no chitwnvw, I don't even want to pretend like I know it all but I do know that I would never cut anyone short on a thought or say "blah de blah blah blah" to a comment. I hope to meet each and every one of you at some point, wouldn't it be STOOPID to let a little typed out conversation get in the way of that? In other words, keep it civil.

Absolutely. As we've each married Hammond girls I figured I have some wiggle room. I'm building up the guest room as I write, if you are ever in Chitown we have a VERY comfy place for you to crash...

[spiffy]

And no chitwnvw, I don't even want to pretend like I know it all but I do know that I would never cut anyone short on a thought or say "blah de blah blah blah" to a comment. I hope to meet each and every one of you at some point, wouldn't it be STOOPID to let a little typed out conversation get in the way of that? In other words, keep it civil.

Absolutely. As we've each married Hammond girls I figured I have some wiggle room. I'm building up the guest room as I write, if you are ever in Chitown we have a VERY comfy place for you to crash...

Right on, Hammond in the house(s)!

[Velokid1]

Ron Paul raised $3.6 million today. And the day still isn't over. It's still 6:15 on the West Coast, where nice progressive populations in LA, San Fran, Portland and Seattle are scooting away from the dinner table and heading to their computers to donate $10 or $50 or $200.

$3.6 million

from real people, not corporations

real people who, unlike corporations, aren't looking for million-dollar handouts or a license to pollute but are just looking for Peace and a fair shake

4 million by midnight. 4 million REAL dollars.

Hope is alive.

[spiffy]

For those that may enjoy this type of info (you sick bastids )

http://www.defenselink.mil/comptroller/ ... titles.htm

[Velokid1]

Ron Paul on ABC this morning:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5YRh3SOnrxg

Note this thing he has called "integrity." They want to lure him into commenting on Hillary's gender but he refuses.



And this morning on CNN, another favorable interview: http://youtube.com/watch?v=CiHIZ7EOsKM



And a nice ABC news story from yesterday:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008 ... 332&page=1




Here's another great CNN interview on YouTube, from May 2007, so it's been awhile.

Ron Paul is attacked by this guy and, as he always does, keeps his cool and continues making perfect sense with rock-solid points. And manages to hand this guy his ass pretty handily. LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ3T5REZ11Q

[Amskeptic]

I have been viewing some of the Ron Paul clips you posted. As Bill Maher points out, he is telling the truth amongst sound-bite nitwits like Rudy Giuliani. He also has made some very good points, as a doctor might, that we can't heal until we know what is wrong. The rage directed at us has reasons, and the installation of the Shah is a damn good one.

That said, I must keep a distance from him right now. He is a true Republican and I admire his principled conviction to be a true Republican.
But my core principles run deeper than the True Republican platform, even. Though he is refreshing and makes good sense and anchors his arguments with facts (facts. . . . imagine that), I cannot under any circumstance see my name added to the GOP right now, I cannot give the GOP of the past seven years an implicit vote of approval by putting my name in their roster, that would be an act of treason against the fury I have felt over the last seven years.

I have to go where labor goes. We have to get this country wrested from the corporate interests, and there is no Republican who can buck the GOP to see it happen. I'd rather blow it up as it needs to be blown up, give labor a chance to restore the American Middle Class, then later when a balance has been restored between the economic classes, then I'd like to see what Ron Paul is up to.

I won't say who I am leaning towards just yet . . .

[vwlover77]

Amen. The Republicans must take a "time-out". Upstairs, to their rooms, for at least one term. They may quietly read a book and use the potty, but sorry, they'll have to miss dinner.

[Velokid1]

Well-said, Colin. Thanks :)

I felt strange registering Republican for the primaries but I see it the way Ron Paul does when he talks about being a true republican in a GOP that is further from being Republican than even the Democrats are.

The GOP doesn't want him there. He's there in spite of them, not because of them. A vote for him is not a vote for the GOP, as far as I can see.

I may lack a complete understanding of the structure of our government, but I don't think the GOP will be strengthened in any way by Ron Paul sitting in the White House. In fact, because Ron Paul would do everything in his power to stamp out special interests, the GOP would suffer a tad more than even the Dems would.

I'm glad you're listening to RP, at least. Honestly, I don't expect him to win and I don't expect everyone I speak to to vote for him... a great many will not. But if people will just LISTEN to his ideas and play around with them in their minds, we are taking steps toward true change for the first time in decades, perhaps a century.

[spiffy]

Velo, your sig line just zapped chills up my spine.

[Velokid1]

Velo, your sig line just zapped chills up my spine.

Was it my sig line? Or could it have been...... aliens?

Art Bell, anyone? LOL

Check this out, speaking of our founding fathers:

by Ron Paul, Dr. July 3, 2006

On the fourth day of July, in 1776, a small group of men, representing 13 colonies in the far-off Americas, boldly told the most powerful nation on earth that they were free.

They declared, in terms that still are radical today, that all men are created equal, and endowed with certain inalienable rights that government neither grants nor can take away.

In the Declaration of Independence, the founding fathers sought to demonstrate to the world that they were rejecting a tyrannical king. They listed the “injuries and usurpations” that contain the philosophical basis for our Constitution and Bill of Rights.

One point of consternation to our founding fathers was that the king had been “imposing Taxes on us without our Consent.” But 230 years later, taxation with representation has not worked out much better.

Indeed, one has to wonder how Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin would react to the current state of affairs. After all, they were outraged by mere import tariffs of a few pennies on the dollar. Today, the average American pays roughly 50 percent of their income in direct and indirect taxes.

In fact, most Texans will not start working for themselves for another week. Texans, like most Americans, work from January until early July just to pay their federal income taxes, state and local taxes, and the enormous costs of regulation. Only about half the year is spent working to pay for food, clothing, shelter, or education.

It is easy to simply blame faceless bureaucrats and politicians for our current state of affairs, and they do bear much of the blame. But blame also rests with those who expect Washington DC to solve every problem under the sun. If the public demanded that Congress abide by the Constitution and pass only constitutional spending bills, politicians would have no choice but to respond.

Everybody seems to agree that government waste is rampant and spending should but cut—but not when it comes to their communities or pet projects. So members of Congress have every incentive to support spending bills and adopt a go-along, get-along attitude. This leads to the famous compromises, but the bill eventually comes due on April 15th.

Our basic problem is that we have lost sight of the simple premise that guided the actions of our founding fathers. That premise? The government that governs least is the government that governs best.

When we cut the size of government, our taxes will fall. When we reduce the power of the federal bureaucracy, the cost of government will plummet. And when we firmly fix our eyes, undistracted, on the principles of liberty, Americans truly will be free. That should be our new declaration.