The Impending Political Season

[steve74baywin]

Why do conservatives crave the heavy hand of big daddy enforced conformity? Because they think the boot heel is for those naughty progressives who dare to think and won't be coming down on their own necks? First they came for....

neal

They crave it only for their opposition, Neal.
Neo-Cons have grouped All Of US into two groups > Us and them.

Us - needs an unfettered uncontrolled non-regulated non-taxed capitalist hegemony and the freedom to defend it with bullets, and will scream at government overreach if any attempt is made to define it much less regulate it.

them - gets their private bedroom/relationship/personal decisions outlawed by conservative social control agenda

Seems to me to be exactly a scenario that could have been predicted.
If you allow, have, want or desire a government/a big controlling body that violates the natural inherent rights provided by natural law, you are going to get perversions that suit themselves, whether as a group or an individual. Pretty simple to me.
You can't have it both ways. You either respect and observe the individuals right to be in charge of themselves, or you support a powerful mob to violate this, and when you do the latter you can't expect something different than what we have. It is that simple, that natural.

[ruckman101]

But the laws that get passed to apply to them apply to EVERYONE, including them. Whoops.

"We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes." Leona Helmsley.

May the paradigm shift.



neal

[dingo]

Somehow I've never understood the meaning of natural law or individual rights...do they really exist or merely some romanticized, idealized concepts conjured up in the past...that have no relevance other than some utopian dream. That floats above the capitalist world like some puffy passing cloud

[Amskeptic]

Somehow I've never understood the meaning of natural law or individual rights...do they really exist or merely some romanticized, idealized concepts conjured up in the past...that have no relevance other than some utopian dream. That floats above the capitalist world like some puffy passing cloud

I subscribe to the puffy cloud model of "natural law/individual rights" with a caveat:
The rule of survival in this complex social group AKA Civilization, actually demands some of those idealized romanticized high-minded utopian ideals. Your average stone age neo-con cannot bear to consider that cooperation and diversity yields the stronger social group.
Colin

[steve74baywin]

Somehow I've never understood the meaning of natural law or individual rights...do they really exist or merely some romanticized, idealized concepts conjured up in the past...that have no relevance other than some utopian dream. That floats above the capitalist world like some puffy passing cloud

Capitalist have no direct claim to Natural Law.

Dingo, it exist naturally in us.
For example, what you think, do or how would you feel or react if I came into your house and started treating and using everything as if it was mine? Sit back and contemplate.
If I did the above against your will, would you not act as if it is your property and I am violating some _____________________.
Fill in the blank with "a natural inherent right to be in charge of yourself and your property".
We certainly could say hogwash to all that, but then that would mean what? We would lose the very leg we are standing on to hold any shred of freedom. It would then be okay for any greater entity to control and use us as if we are livestock, chickens in a chicken coup kept to produce eggs. And then, we'd be back to when humans were slaves, funny thing is, even when they were slaves at the various times throughout history, it seemed many felt that was not correct, they felt it was wrong, they perhaps felt it was in violation to a natural inherent right.

[RSorak 71Westy]

natural law only exists if it is codified into the actual law.....

[dingo]

For example, what you think, do or how would you feel or react if I came into your house and started treating and using everything as if it was mine?

the banks do this on a daily basis, and neither pleading of ' natural law' nor passing of stricter rules has any effect on their plundering....

[ruckman101]

For example, what you think, do or how would you feel or react if I came into your house and started treating and using everything as if it was mine?

the banks do this on a daily basis, and neither pleading of ' natural law' nor passing of stricter rules has any effect on their plundering....

I can vouch for that.

What still steams me is the comment the woman made who brought me the check for the keys to the house after paperwork was signed and the keys turned over to her, driving her little compact Mercedes SUV. The place had to be "broom clean" and free of trash etc. Cheryle and I were there sweeping it out, Bertha Bus and Gretchen Ghia parked in the drive, and the woman says, "Now about the cars...." implying they were junkers we were leaving there.

Clueless suburbanite living off the misfortunes of others.


neal

[Sylvester]

For example, what you think, do or how would you feel or react if I came into your house and started treating and using everything as if it was mine?

the banks do this on a daily basis, and neither pleading of ' natural law' nor passing of stricter rules has any effect on their plundering....

I can vouch for that.

What still steams me is the comment the woman made who brought me the check for the keys to the house after paperwork was signed and the keys turned over to her, driving her little compact Mercedes SUV. The place had to be "broom clean" and free of trash etc. Cheryle and I were there sweeping it out, Bertha Bus and Gretchen Ghia parked in the drive, and the woman says, "Now about the cars...." implying they were junkers we were leaving there.

Clueless suburbanite living off the misfortunes of others.


neal

You should have said "Oh no that POS Mercedes is not mine, might be the local drug dealer or hooker.". Heh

[RussellK]

[album]256[/album]

Let's all follow Mr Natural's law!

[steve74baywin]

For example, what you think, do or how would you feel or react if I came into your house and started treating and using everything as if it was mine?

the banks do this on a daily basis, and neither pleading of ' natural law' nor passing of stricter rules has any effect on their plundering....

Exactly, that is the problem.
Our government, with the agreement of many people has been violating this...
A line was crossed, and if someone wants, asks, or begs the government to violate this you will feel it when it is violated in you. It is that simple, you either obey it, or as in the case of this country, it is no longer obeyed and have the banks doing that, the government doing it, and the do gooders all violating it.

Once it is violated, for whatever supposed good reason, it opens up pandora's box.
Everyone and there brother, every lobbyist, etc is now out attempting to stack the cards in their favor. It becomes a race amongst the low life greedy Mf'ers to use the force of the government to add a new rule and regulation to benefit them.
Your liberty and freedom is up for bids.

[steve74baywin]

[album]256[/album]

Let's all follow Mr Natural's law!

Pretty clever.

If you come up with some more stuff I may be able to use some for my blog.

[Amskeptic]

For example, what you think, do or how would you feel or react if I came into your house and started treating and using everything as if it was mine?

the banks do this on a daily basis, and neither pleading of ' natural law' nor passing of stricter rules has any effect on their plundering....

Exactly, that is the problem.
Our government, with the agreement of many people has been violating this...
It becomes a race amongst the low life greedy Mf'ers to use the force of the government to add a new rule and regulation to benefit them.
Your liberty and freedom is up for bids.

"Our government has been violating this" ... what? Be specific please.
After we have banished the "greedy Mf'ers", then let's see what sort of government we have.

[steve74baywin]

"Our government has been violating this" ... what? Be specific please.
After we have banished the "greedy Mf'ers", then let's see what sort of government we have.

Sure thing Colin.
Our government tells us what we can and cannot do in our homes. It is our right to be in charge of our selves. If man A say has a cow that produces milk. Man A is willing to sell this Raw milk to man B. Man B is willing to buy this raw milk from man A. It is man A and man B's inherent right as understood by natural law to sell and buy from each other.
So the answer to your "what?" question, the government violates natural law,which is understood to mean man's right to be in charge of or govern his own property, property to include his body or something he made or acquired, the only limitation on your rights is the equal right of others

If the "greedy Mf'ers" have been able to use the system for their gain by violating our Natural inherent rights, Natural Law, then, like I said in another post minutes ago, the answer is to correct/undo the wrongs. This wrong (violating Natural Law) is what has enabled the "greedy Mf'ers" to use the government for their benefit. And, alot of it is the peoples fault. The people, momentarily thinking that they could gain by getting the government to violate someone else's rights, had or allowed the government to do this. Once the gov is in the practice of doing this, those with the most money have been able to influence the government the most, hence where we are at today. Stop the gov from doing this, and the problem is solved. To some others, please note I said problem solved as in that problem, I did not say "rose garden" or world with "no problems".

[ruckman101]

"Our government has been violating this" ... what? Be specific please.
After we have banished the "greedy Mf'ers", then let's see what sort of government we have.

Sure thing Colin.
Our government tells us what we can and cannot do in our homes. It is our right to be in charge of our selves. If man A say has a cow that produces milk. Man A is willing to sell this Raw milk to man B. Man B is willing to buy this raw milk from man A. It is man A and man B's inherent right as understood by natural law to sell and buy from each other.
So the answer to your "what?" question, the government violates natural law,which is understood to mean man's right to be in charge of or govern his own property, property to include his body or something he made or acquired, the only limitation on your rights is the equal right of others

If the "greedy Mf'ers" have been able to use the system for their gain by violating our Natural inherent rights, Natural Law, then, like I said in another post minutes ago, the answer is to correct/undo the wrongs. This wrong (violating Natural Law) is what has enabled the "greedy Mf'ers" to use the government for their benefit. And, alot of it is the peoples fault. The people, momentarily thinking that they could gain by getting the government to violate someone else's rights, had or allowed the government to do this. Once the gov is in the practice of doing this, those with the most money have been able to influence the government the most, hence where we are at today. Stop the gov from doing this, and the problem is solved. To some others, please note I said problem solved as in that problem, I did not say "rose garden" or world with "no problems".

Who is the arbiter of limitation? Doesn't Man B have an equal right to health, but Man A feels there are no negative health consequences to the antibiotics and other nastiness he doses his cows with to maximize milk production and his profits? Not to mention the profits of the companies supplying/manufacturing those products? What "natural law" recourse does Man B have if Man A sells him tainted raw milk that kills his children? Don't buy anymore milk from Man A?

And what of Community A downstream from Man A's operation that has ruined their groundwater and stream from bovine urine and feces? Is that the only recourse they have, to not buy milk from Man A?

Has there ever been a time in history that the "natural law" of freedom and liberty hasn't needed "government" to ensure it?


neal