LiveonJG wrote: Amskeptic wrote:HE WOULD NOT HAVE CREATED ANY CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS!!!!!!
No matter what you think about the Supreme Court's ruling in Bush v. Gore, it is still a Supreme Court RULING.
The terms of the discussion are shifting subtley here. I was answering your claim of Gore throwing us into a Constitutional crisis by not conceding, I said "The crisis was already here!" and you are now saying after the fact that it was just a "ruling" i.e. deal with it. It was the most highly irregular and shameful ruling in the Court's history, ask Sandra Day O'Conner.
LiveonJG wrote:
So you believe the structure that was laid out by the Founding Fathers would be too weak to withstand the reign of a tremendously shitty president? Al Gore understood the strength of our basic form of government, tis a shame your cynicism prevents you from that.
What? Don't put your presuppositions in my arguments, then judge me for your erroneous presuppositions. That is not a clean discussion. That is Sean Hannity stuff.
No! I do not believe I made any judgment whatsoever about the strength of the structure of our government in any preceding argument. I certainly do not believe that the structure of our government is too weak, where did that come from? Cynicism? Shame?
Whether or not Al Gore understood the strength of our basic form of government is not the issue here. The issue here is:
WE DID NOT FOLLOW OUR OWN RULES! It was not a fair election, it was not reconciled according to RULES OF LAW it was decided by fiat. That is not respecting our form of government. That is abusing our principles.
Cynicism? Me? Cynicism. . . . . . . cynics are those who say "hey, don't worry about it, your dead son in Iraq, it's just the result of a shitty self-installed president, don't worry about it, we'll survive."
LiveonJG wrote:
So you suggest he should have been able to see into the future? When Bush was appointed, my belief was four years of a president totally beholden to corporate interests might just be the thing to give us a collective kick in the ass.
I don't give a damn about any "shoulds." I do not carry on those kinds of "so you just think", "so what you're really saying", "so you really think" conversations. I stick with my opinions and leave "you" suppositions out of it.
Al Gore is a brilliant guy. Al Gore was briefed on every national security issue before us for the prior eight years. Al Gore knew Dick Cheney and George Bush Sr. Al Gore was familiar with the Carlysle Group. Al Gore was perfectly capable of assessing the future path likely to be charted by the Bush klan. I will leave it to him as to why he decided to relinquish the most irregular election in the history of the Republic. That does not change my disappointment at him what actually ensued. OK, you thought that the Bush years might wake us up, I personally thought that a pillar of the Republic was pulled down by a bunch of thugs, and it has been far worse, far worse, than any of my initial imaginings. The worst thing of all, in my little mind, is that we let it go down without a fight. We should have been in the streets. Throw in the Patriot Act for good measure. Who resisted the suspension of habeas corpus? Who gives a rat's ass about our secret renditions? We deserve to lose this Representative Democracy.
LiveonJG wrote:
Then the events of September 11, 2001 gave these criminals a blank slate to piss all over the Constitution, which the did and continue to do. Do you really think Al Gore could have foreseen those events?
That is not what I was asking of Al Gore! Or us citizens! An event does not give anyone "a blank slate" to piss all over the Constitution, they took
advantage of the crisis and we then
gave them indiscriminate permission.
All I asked of Al Gore was to uphold the damn truth as he knew it that fine November Friday afternoon when the Supreme Court decided who was going to be President.
LiveonJG wrote:Al Gore is fighting the good fight on many fronts.
I think he is more effective now, closer to his joy, and I admire the hell out of him. He would make a lousy President, he does not want to be President, and my disappointment is real. The results of his standing down are incontrovertible. I can easily admire a person who, in my mind, also helped to unleash the greatest political tragedy of our times.
Colin